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What Would You Tell Yourself

Episode 28 · 16 June 2025 · 1 hr 3 min

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Advice to My 30-Year-Old Self: What We Would Tell Our Younger Selves

What advice would you give your 30-year-old self? Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino each bring a short list, covering big decisions, the people around you, and how to think bigger.

John starts with a letter he wrote about the three most important decisions you make in life and how to make them: a clear process, wise counsel, and your core values. Anthony adds the domino effect, since every decision tips something else over. He also talks about being careful whose advice you take, and why it's OK to choose differently.

Then they talk about work and talent: there's no single right career path, it's hard to give up security for what might be, and leaders need to notice and develop talent, even when that means hiring people better than you.

Randy's list: be conscious of the five people you spend the most time with, ask better questions ("What would have to be true?"), build resilience through gratitude, and think bigger. They close with a listener's text and the question of what it would take to own an NFL team.

What Would You Tell Your Younger Self? Advice for Your 30s

What you'll discover:

  • How to make the three biggest decisions in life
  • Seeking wise counsel, and when to go against it
  • The domino effect of every decision
  • Recognizing and developing talent, including hiring people better than you
  • Ask better questions: "What would have to be true?"
  • Resilience, gratitude and thinking bigger

Timestamps

  • [00:00] Welcome: advice for your 30-year-old self
  • [01:47] John's letter: the three most important decisions, and how to make them
  • [02:40] A decision process is like baking
  • [03:33] Seek wise counsel
  • [05:25] The less selfish you are, the more you get back
  • [08:03] Core values and decisions
  • [10:45] The domino effect
  • [11:39] Bigger decisions need more counsel, and when to go against it
  • [14:19] Choosing who you spend time with
  • [16:59] Making the decision yourself
  • [19:40] Choosing work, and the four questions
  • [25:03] There's no single right career path
  • [27:49] Giving up what you have for what you might have
  • [30:31] Step two: be conscious of the people around you
  • [32:23] Developing talent: the call-center nurses story
  • [36:50] Are you wired for the job?
  • [38:38] Recognizing and nurturing talent
  • [43:02] Hiring people better than you
  • [46:35] Ask better questions: "What would have to be true?"
  • [49:14] Resilience and gratitude
  • [52:46] A story about Lululemon founder Chip Wilson
  • [55:26] The network effect
  • [57:13] Think bigger
  • [58:06] The billion-dollar question
  • [59:51] Final thoughts and a listener's text

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About the hosts

This is a hosts-only episode with no guest: Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino. (Host bios are on the host pages linked below.)

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Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect some spelling errors in names and terms.

[00:02] to talk about advice that we would give our 30-year-old self. And you'll hear from me, you'll hear from John as always, and then also Anthony Marino, frequent guest, will be on. And you'll get three different perspectives on advice and what will we go back and tell our 30-year-old self regardless if you're 20, 30, or 80. Hopefully, there'll be some wisdom in there and some takeaways that you can take and apply to your life. Abundance. Why settle for less? I'm here again as always with John Oberg and also uh frequent guest contributor Anthony Marino uh on the podcast today. And we are going to be talking about what advice would you give your 30-year-old self? And this came up uh a couple weeks ago. A guy that I was coaching actually asked me if I could go back and talk to my 30-year-old self, what would you what would you tell yourself? And I thought it was a fantastic question and made me think about it. I had answers I gave him and then more answers I thought of going on.

[01:08] So, you're going to hear from Anthony and John. And let's let's jump in. John, oh man, I love and hate this question because I first ask what I'd tell my 30-year-old self, then I say, "Have I actually listened?" So, do I need to tell my today self, too? I don't always love that answer. It's like, okay, I would say X, Y, and yeah. still need to think about that. So, what's the fir what's the first one? You know, I wrote I wrote a very similar letter to my two kids who've turned 18, and my 14-year-old will get a similar copy of the letter. And it really is about the most important decisions you make in your life. And I think it starts when you're 18 or so, like graduating high school, that age. And the things that I tell them in this letter are about the three most important decisions you make in your life. And then I talk about how you make those decisions. So it's how do you make decisions? What are the three most important decisions you're going to make in your life? And then the letter kind of closes out about gratitude and resilience. And that's that's this letter that they get. And it's it's interesting because I've seen my son print the letter and keep a copy on his desk and go back to it again and again. And it's been a really gratifying experience to to talk about it with him occasionally, but watch him and engaging with it more often. And I wish I'd had that letter, you know, when I was 18 years old. Let's start with the first one. How do you make decisions? Yeah. I mean, what is the what is the general advice there? I think there's lots of great ways to make decisions for me. I am a technician when I'm not naturally talented. And I don't think I have very many natural talents, which means I have to go learn like what's the step by step to do something. So, as an example, I'm I'm better at baking in the kitchen than I am at cooking because baking is like use exactly this much flour, use exactly this much butter, you and so I just do better at that. So, I tried to provide a framework for my kids that says, you know, there's lots of ways to make decisions, but here's one that can work.

[02:55] And it it starts with just like listing all the options I'm faced with. Like, what decision am I trying to make? What are the options? Right? And if there's obvious bad choices, get rid of the obvious bad choices right away. Then list the pros and the cons of each option and then take a deep breath and consider like is there an intuition or a gut about each one and which one gives me peace and which one makes me feel anxious right and then and then you know check in on that and then I think seeking wise counsel for big decisions people who've made that decision previously to understand their pros and cons and what you know what may come of it for me and it's important to make a decision for you for like for my son for my son or for me for me or for my daughter for my daughter whatever the case may But I think seeking wise counsel can help be a sounding board and then repeat the peace and anxiety thing and then um start the plan whichever path you think you're going down and go through the whole process again if it's a really big decision to make sure you're on the right path. And so that that's how I and when I talk about like big big big life decisions, who you're going to marry, you know, what your vocation is going to be, like it's a process that may take some time, but it's smart to be deliberate and to go through it. And I think a lot of people aren't as deliberate as they wish they would have been in retrospect. Okay. Um not my process. I stole this from someone. This has been a process for 400 years that has been used. Like I I don't want to hold out like I made this up. I totally stole this from someone smarter than me. Fair enough. Um I think most of the things all of us think we stole from somebody else. You know, one time or another somebody stole it from somebody and we're we're probably the eighth in the chain. Truth. Truth for me. But Anthony, is that how you make decisions or is that a line or? Well, I want to go back a little bit because John dodged the question. So, what is the one thing you would tell your 30-year-old self?

[04:46] There wouldn't be one thing I would Well, I want the one thing. You get one thing is that that's the rule of the show. Be deliberate. Be deliberate. Be deliberate. Yeah. And and these are the things you want to be deliberate about. Yeah. For me, it would be to not be as selfish as I was. Um, and I would probably have to be reminded of that at 35, at 40, at 45. you know, as you're coming up in a career, your your focus um may cause anxiety and problems with other people. And what I've learned is the less selfish you are and the more giving you are, the more you get back, you'll you'll you'll have some disappointments along the way where you you know, you really laid it on the line for somebody and they let you down. But the vast majority of time, the return on investment is terrific. You know, it's like the stock market. You're not going to win at every stock choice you make.

[05:50] But if you make good choices and you're deliberate in your decision- making and you study and you pick the right companies, you're going to do okay in the long run. And looking back on a long career, uh, too many decisions were made in um with a myopic view of of the future. Um, going back to your process, unfortunately, and again, not to pick on John, but I so enjoy it. As do I. So many not everyone can be right like me. Well, you know what, John? I can agree with you and that way we both can be wrong, but we won't do that. Um, unfortunately, you're faced with decision, a a need to make a decision without a lot of time. It's great. I agree with marriage and your job and as you reflect on things and you can make notes as am I in the right vocation? Am I married to the right person? And you know all those things are true and I absolutely agree with that process but I think what we have to learn is what are our what are your core values around your decision-m you know what are what are what who are you are you you know self-centered and you're going to make those those kinds of decisions or are you a real thoughtful person and you're and you're more inclined to think of others before yourself and that's going to that may change the decision that you make in in an instant and we're faced with decisions, hundreds and hundreds of them a week. So that that takes a lot of work and a lot of reflection and I don't think most of us um do that well. So I think that's something we got to think about and work on. Yeah. I know for me, I feel like a lot of the better decisions I've made has been when I followed my gut and I listened to that little intuition more than when I if I get too logical in the process, I maybe don't get into I think what Anthony said was really wise with the core values and what we believe in and instead of sometimes doing what felt right, I do what's logical. That generally hasn't worked out as well for me. But even even core values are a decision you have to make, right? Like you go through this whole process if you're choosing like my core values haven't changed substantially since I wrote them down the first time with one exception. And uh and the exception was because I I got it wrong the first time.

[08:17] Like I I wrote some words down that didn't really mean what I wanted them to mean, but they weren't they weren't purely aspirational. And so I went through that same process of decision-m to choose core values. But I think a lot of people, they choose core values that feel good to talk about or that they're aspirational versus what's really critically important to them. And so to me, the core values and how you make decisions are about what you do when no one's looking, right? That's that's that's the real question about core values. And that's a whole different episode on core values for sure. Yeah, that's and that would be one where I would agree it takes some time, right? Like I spent a long time doing core values exercises personally and for the company. And we have a whole episode on that previous episode. So I agree with that. But but I think back up the one thing I want to say about decisions. There are decisions that you can unwind and I think they those require less deliberation. Right? So like if I'm going to make a decision that like I can go back and change that decision in the face of new information quickly, easily, painlessly. Like I'm very comfortable making decisions very quickly in that circumstance because there's something I can unwind. I think when you choose your career path or your vocation or you know the people you're going to spend the most of your time with like th those are things that are much harder to unwind that are much bigger investments. And so so I do I do agree with you that learning how to make decisions quickly is important but the right type of investment of energy based on the seriousness of the decision is important and knowing which decisions are important or not. You know, I I I I've told the kids recently, like there are things you'll be faced with in your late teenage years that can change your life forever if you make bad decisions. Like there, you know, we have a friend who had another friend who we don't know whose uh daughter tried some drug that I don't know what it was. It was a pill.

[10:01] It was laced with fentanyl and killed that child after one attempt to try drugs. Like there are just some decisions that are so big and so so fast. Those are the ones that that I think require more deliberation. Yeah. I think one of the an area where where I'm coming from in some sense with the core values is once you've once you've kind of established that and practice that, right? We all we all know that you have to live your values for a while before they become instinctive. Sure. And that will help in the decision- making. Once you're instinctive about your core values, then the decisions you make that affect other people most importantly have a better chance of being the right decision. You know, I always use um it's it's a not a great analogy, but it's I call it the domino effect. You know, every decision is the first tip over of the domino. It affects something. the butterfly effect and it's and it affects the next thing and the next thing and particularly running businesses and under the gun many times you you know we move too quick you know those are business decisions and they can be unwound but you know they can also have had lasting effects on people where there was a layoff or a promotion that you shouldn't have done and things like that so I always try to check myself and I don't do it all the time you know again use your instinct sometimes your instinct is right sometimes times it's wrong. Um, what's the what's the effect? Who who's who is this going to affect? What is this going to affect? Why is it going to affect it?

[11:39] So, that's the wise counsel part. The bigger the decision, the more wise counsel you need to seek. I think that's the that's the whole approach. And that's why I tried to think through like when going back to my younger self, I wish someone had told me earlier like your choice of vocation, your choice of who you spend time with. And then the third choice that I I shared with my kids was, you know, what are you going to believe in that's bigger than yourself? back to your self selfishness versus selfless like you know we're a community animal so I want my kids thinking about what's bigger than them and then I want doing that with gratitude and with um resilience like I think those are the things that they're going to need and and I'm think I'm trying to think about what they're going to need in the next 50 60 years you know for their life for their career for their relationships and the things they may not be getting as naturally in their environment as I wish they would. Yeah, my my thoughts on the wise council, I'm thinking about I've always reached out and got counsel on a lot of things and a lot of the best decisions I've made were exactly the opposite of what the wise counsel right um and I remember my dad I mean doing things and just shaking his head and being like all right I think this is a mistake but good luck right and so you know but at other times the wise counsel has been really beneficial to me right it's it's it's helped me avoid mistakes or potholes or sometimes it's like if you're going to do this, you know, be careful of this. I think great wise counsel shouldn't be telling you what to do. It should be telling you what their experiences were and what to look out for as you make a choice one direction or the other. That I mean the mentors that I've appreciated the most and and the mentor that I certainly hope that I try to be is like not saying do this, don't do that, but instead saying hey if you go left here's what might happen. If you go right here's what might happen. And you know what are we not thinking about? What are the unintended consequences? and being a really astute sounding board and hopefully not projecting their own experiences on to you. Hopefully.

[13:29] All right. So, decision making. So, that that's that's one. Um, my first one, by the way, was networking or who are your five? Having a better five is the is the answer I gave this person. And as I thought about it, it sticks there. that that was a challenge for me when you know I think the people that I I had some friends that we had a lot of fun but I certainly did not maximize for career success or a lot of other things with who the five were. Yeah. So for the Yeah. For the listener we've talked about this previously which is it's been said by many people that you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You're talking about the five people you spend the most time with. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I think I think there were opportunities for me to have more success earlier and be surrounded by people that were probably better aligned with where I was going than a lot of the people that I associated with who, you know, a lot of those I'm still in touch with and they're friends, but we weren't on the same life path either. And there are people that can that migrate into your five and out of your five during life stages. We've talked about that before, too. Yeah. But you know if I think about who the five were that I maximize for if I was in college for it was there was zero thought of networking for success right or moving forward it was okay who can I hang out with who can I have fun who can I watch the game with or go to this party with or play basketball with or whatever it was right and and so I would go back and really be much more intentional with what do I want to accomplish where do I and where am I going and who who should what conversation should I be having and who should I be hanging out with to to help me get there. Yeah. I think yeah, my my my watch out for myself was but not being quidd proquo about it like because I was oftentimes early in my career I was like what can this person do for me and I find that to be a little distasteful about the way that I treated people and so I don't think that's what you're saying by the way I think you're saying like who are the people that I want to be on the journey with right question the way that I took that when I was young is what can you do for me now and that was the wrong question and so I think it's a it's a subtle difference with a big big um implication for how you treat people. Well, the hierarchy of companies, it's it's a it's a bit different now. I mean, the hierarchy of companies back in the day, the '9s and prior, you know, you had bosses who wanted you to have mentors and there were there was a there was there were things to do. And if you even go back into school, you had, you know, certain teachers that, you know, were delivering a message to you that was was forming your opinions and so forth. And they may not have been wise counsel, right? They were just for whatever reason you were impressionable and you followed that lead and what it turned out not to be the right path for you. We're on top of that and not there are differences between men and women generally but specifically and it's not 100% of the cases women are much better at seeking out counsel and collaborating before they make even little decisions.

[16:50] Men tend to be the hero and I got this so I'm going to make this decision. I may have got a little bit of help. I might have studied a little bit, but I'm making the decision. You know, I know from experience when my wife makes a decision, she's talked to five or six people and and it's a believe me, moving her off that decision is much harder than it would be to move me off a decision when she points out, you know, have you thought about Yeah. I don't know. I I was with you all the way up to the last part where you say you move off your decision to easier No, no, I didn't say I I No, no, no. I didn't say that. Okay. All right. I said if she points out or someone points out something I hadn't thought about, I'm likely to reconsider the decision. It may already be underway. Hard to unwind, but I might reconsider and start to doubt it and maybe, you know, pull over into the breakdown lane, think about it a little bit more, and then ren myself to it in a in a direction similar to what might be be done. But that first decision, I I'll just make it. Yeah. Mo most people I would say that as a as a psychological kind of um generalism is that once someone's made a decision about something, it's generally hard to move them away from that decision. And and new information can be helpful for some people and and for some people more than others. And some people are probably more prone to to, you know, being analytically paralyzed and and maybe it's a manwoman thing. I don't maybe it's not. But I can think of plenty of women who would self-identify with the way you handle things and men more like Jan. And so, but the reality is I think being aware of what your shortcomings with decision-m are and where you can get stronger. Like that's that's the real benefit here is like what what's the strength and weakness of my decision-m process and where can I get better? And then who can be around me that I'm going to listen to. You know, I've had some of my friends give me unsolicited advice and I don't love that, but I I I know that their intention is they're trying to help me. It's just not always easy to hear. Okay, let's move to the second one. So, John, you have decision- making. What was the sec was the second thing on your letter? Well, I it was decision- making as a process.

[19:04] Then I went into the three important decisions you make and those again were, you know, who you spend your time with, your choice of your profession, and then what do you believe in that's bigger than you? Like those those are the three the who you spend your time with align with what I said with who are your five, right? So, I think we've covered that one. So, the next one was your profession. Yeah. Just what you're going to do vocationally and and so and that vocation might be the job that you have. That's some people's vocation. Some people have a job, but their vocation is in volunteer work outside of that job or in their family. Some people their vocation is their family. Like I think however you describe vocation like the the the thing you're doing to make a productive society. Why is that such a big thing? Because you spend most of your time in your life doing it. Waking like most of your waking hours in your life are spent on your vocation. And I think that is going you know my belief system is that you don't chase happiness directly. That happiness is a byproduct of a life well-lived. And your vocation is going to take up the vast majority of your time. So that the byproduct of joy and happiness versus the choice you make for joy. Those are two separate things in my world. Just my mental model. Like I think you're going to you're going to have a better life if you're chose something you're designed to do.

[20:18] How about So here's a question. You said designed. Something I have on my list further down is follow your passion. So and I think this is an area you tend to lean more into the I'm good at this therefore I should do it. No, no, no, no. You come on. You've seen my four questions. Try again. Well, but what are the four questions, J? Come on. You know my four questions. What are you good at? What are you passionate about? How do you want to spend your time, energy, and resources? And then what how do you want to make your mark on the world? And do I have a choice? Five would be, do I have a choice to use one through four? So, I think it's um trying to be nice about this, but I I don't know if I can. The society in which we live may or may not give you the opportunity to use those four things because of the economic conditions that you're living under and what must happen for you to survive. Okay. So Maslo's hierarchy tells us, you know, we've got to we have there's the base. We have to survive.

[21:20] Sure. And it's it's very intellectual of us to pontificate about these uh highulutin choices that we could make dad was left and I graduated high school and I don't have the grades to go to college, no other money, and I don't really have a trade skill. What do I do? You know, well, I got to go survive. Yeah. I mean, the fif the fifth circle in a key guy is what do I get paid for? And so when you overlap paid for in there, then you get something at the center. And so the paid for circle is where you get in through Maslaw's hierarchy of needs. And then as you go through Maslaw's hierarchy, you move from the outside of the eeky guy toward the center of the eeky guy. And so so I think that's absolutely relevant, but at the end of the day, it's not just what I'm I'm passionate about. I my observation, John, and I'm not again, this isn't a judgment. I don't think this the answer is right for everybody, by the way. I'm not saying this trying to I got you or that's that's not my intention here at all. My observation with you and what you value back to what Anthony talked about earlier. If if you see an opportunity that has great financial and somebody wants to do something over here, you tend to lean toward how do we maximize this and then use it toward that thing you're passionate about is more like how do you how do you use the income here and do this is is where you would tend to go first at least. I think with you what you've heard is the from too, like how do you get from where you are to where you want to go without with with the least amount of um unnecessary risk. And so I I do talk a lot about risk, you know, and how you actually look at um asymmetrical risk versus reward. I mean, for sure I look at that because I think Well, you know more about this than me having played professional poker. You're constantly calculating that asymmetry.

[23:16] Yeah. I just all I'm saying is again not making a judgment which one's right or wrong. I tend to lean more toward follow your passion, right? In picking that career and that the success I get both, right? There's the practical part Anony's talking about. You've got to make a living. You've got to feed your family. And by the way, when you get past those basic needs, if you can make an extra couple hundred thousand a year, you can do all this other stuff over there, right? I can argue both sides of this. I'm just saying that I think most people either they they they maximize one or the other. I don't think very many people are balanced. Yeah, I don't know, man. I'm I mean I I have inside information. I don't want to like like what's it called when you bring out someone's Is it doxing? When you tell someone's secrets and is that what it's called? Is that is that No, doxing is more like name, address, where they live. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, I I I mean, you've given me inside information that I don't want to like share on the air, but I would say that like if I if you'll let me, I can talk to you about like you say that you do things one way, but my experience with you might be something different. I'm not saying I'm not saying I've even made the choices, right? I mean, some of that's been to Anony's point, like there's choices I would like to have made different following a passion in the last in the last however many years, but some of it is there's a mortgage to pay and there's mouths to feed and college to pay for. And I have made that decision even if maybe haven't made the right decision. I'm not saying I've followed the followed what's best for me always. Yeah. I mean, you and I have had conversations where there's a lot more than mouths to feed in your household. like you've been very sensitized to like the families of the people that work with you and how to take care of those people too. Like it's a much more selfless endeavor for you.

[24:57] And I think that back to Anony's point about like being selfless and doing what you've set out to do for a reason for a time period. I I don't think there's a right path. I don't think that anyone's career path is like you should choose your career this way. I think there's a way of viewing the landscape that is as holistic as it can be. I think the Japanese a key guy, which is where I kind of drew my inspiration from and the four questions you've heard for years. What that does is it draws a picture for people where they can make those choices with as much information as is reasonable. And the way that I might counsel you to do that might be different than the way I counsel Anthony to do that. But really, my role when I'm in that kind of coaching seat is to help someone see the entire landscape and then make a good decision for them. not not to project what I think they should do, but to help them see it more clearly. And if they're missing something, then to call that out. Yeah. I'd like to change the world to um by figuring out a way to start this thought process at a much younger age. you know, our for a long time and it it may be changing a little bit now.

[26:05] Um, for a long time it was go to school, go to college, get a job, you know, um, be better than your parents, you know, make more money than your parents and so on and so forth. Do you know where that came from, by the way? I don't know. Super interesting. Can we take a quick turn here? Go ahead. This was designed by the robber barons to institutionalize our school system so they could have a docel workforce for an industrialized nation. So, so like this is a part of how they decided we needed to be trained so that they could have a good worker for their factory, right? Like like in that I don't think that method serves us in the best way today. No, obviously it doesn't. And and so you know the the how that's the what the how is how do we how do we teach younger people and I don't know what age you start at you know identifying what they're good at identifying what their passion is and then teaching them what that means in terms of the economics somewhere down the road. You know, someone learning forran programming and they're good at it and they're passionate about it doesn't do them much good in today's society, right? Those of you that don't know what forran is, look it up. Go to chat gpt and look it up.

[27:22] Um, off punch cards, right? Um, Anthony is going to show us he has a vacuum tube computer at home. Hey, it worked. Um so you know I think it's a huge it's a huge issue and it's a continuing issue as you get into a rhythm of what you are actually doing at various stages of your life. I mean it's hard to break away from an environment that's that's providing economic security or some level of security um or survival. It's hard to break away from that and go do something different. I mean, I, you know, I was very fortunate in my career to have a really some really good jobs, high-paying jobs. The opportunities that I missed were half a dozen times people wanted to front me the money to go start my own business in those industries. And I looked at it and I said, "Well, no, I'm making a ton of money and my I got kids that are ready to go to college or I got to take care of that." So, I took the easy quote unquote easy path. Um, and didn't break till I was 60 years old. I was 60 years old when I started my first business. Two two things jump out at me. One, it just hit me that I need to talk to my kids about the power of their own habits, good, bad, and ugly. And I'm gonna add habits to this letter and I'm going to resend a letter that talks about deliberately choosing what habits so you don't get hijacked by the wrong habits. I think that's one thing I just made a note of right here.

[28:44] And the second thing is I read a a note from a private equity firm that studied like I think it was like 700 different private equity firms that were like venture capital private equity and they looked at like who the most successful entrepreneurs were. It was generally people that had 20 or more years in their industry with three or more founding partners of that venture. Like most entrepreneurs don't start at 20 in terms of like percentage of success. Most entrepreneurs start you know decades later and they understand their industry their problem set those things. And so maybe you actually made great decisions. Like I would just I would just reframe that thinking in that, you know. Well, but my passion was to get out from under the man and I didn't do it. And I had to I mean people were going to write me checks. Yeah. That we're going to you know go look it. You need to go do this and I we will help you do it. and uh I just couldn't like I didn't have the spine to give up what I had for what I might have. So anyway, by the way, I looked up before I added to what John said, the part about the the education system I knew was right, but I also thought it had something to do with war. I asked Grock and Grock confirmed it's it's based on the Prussian model by the way and part of it was the education system for the factories but also part of it was to make people more nationalistic and make better soldiers, people more willing to fight for the country. That's they got it from Yeah. So it was that combination of things and I just I thought that was true but I Grock confirmed. So assuming that's confirmation. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anthony, what's your se what's your So we've talked about picking a career. What what's your second piece of advice you would give 30-year-old Anthony?

[30:28] Last time it was be less selfish and have a long longer longer time rhyme. So, what would be number step two? Be very conscious of the people around you and what they're contributing to your success or your or your journey. Um, and it's not just mentors, it's um, what am I learning from my peers? And frankly, from my subordinates, and I use those terms. I don't like I don't like any of those terms, but um, that's just the nature of the the kind of businesses I grew up in. Uh, I've I learned a ton from my my subordinates. um some of whom have have gone on to be CEOs of other companies or other seuite um type And it wasn't until midcareer that I that I I was actually there for them. My purpose was to help them achieve what they wanted to achieve. You know, we used to throw people into management training programs whether they liked it or not. you know, they're a good something. Oh, you're going in a management training and you know, they went and failed because they didn't want that kind of responsibility. They wanted to be an individual contributor and you know, we never thought that who the heck would want to be an individual contri don't you want to be a manager? Um, yeah, I remember those days very very clearly and and I see the you know, the bodies at the side of the road. Great book about that. Marcus Buckingham wrote first break all the rules where he talks about companies need to have a path for growing as an individual contributor as a technical master not just a manager.

[32:13] Great great book. Yeah. You know and and having an understanding of you know some people are in an environment working so that they can get to something else. I I've told a story about the nurses at the LA call center. We built a we did we found out we had these great and talented people that were leaving to you know to go back to nursing school and so forth and they wanted to stay but we wouldn't change their schedules. Well you know what a easy solution right and you know so we did that and we graduated tens and tens of people from nursing school. They ultimately left us but man they were great contributors during that time. So that's that's the the thing I would tell him was to think about others and the impact you can have on others and then what it does for you. And that call center became the highest performing call center we had after we made changes not just with the nurses but with single moms, single dads, people had life changes, you know, so they needed a schedule change. In the old days we just tell them no. In the new day we told them all right whatever.

[33:20] So, let's go back to the learning from the people that you work with, whether you know that you they're your boss or they, you know, quote unquote work for you. I mean, I I always hear the quote that if you if you don't hire people smarter than you, or I'm screwing up the quote, but the the concept is if you don't hire if you don't hire people smarter than you, you're not going to grow. You're not going to get maximum results, right? It's there's a better saying for it, but you get the gist, right? So, where how did you learn that? How did you learn to to hire smart smart people? It wasn't it wasn't I it it wasn't so much that what it what I learned was people are generally smart, right? So, they're pretty good. You know, if you just you know, you don't have to go find the person with the highest SAT score or you know, whatever measure of intelligence you want. You have to break that hierarchy I told you about. You know, in big companies in particular, this hierarchy of decision-making where we made this decision and this is the way it's going to be. If you can figure out how to break the rules by letting and listening to the subordinates and peers give you guidance on the decisions you're going to make.

[34:30] back to this thoughtful process about decision-m you're going to get input that you hadn't thought about that you know the subordinate is a form of a domino right he's one of the dominoes in that in that hey boss I don't know if you know if you do this then this and then that and then this and it change it changes the whole process hard to do in big companies because you're supposed to be there to be the decision maker in that seuite job or in that senior management position and so forth. Um, but if you can if you can finesse that and get the nuances of it, I think it's, you know, whether you're in a big company or a small company, but not most managers today have the um I don't know if it's willingness or ability, but they what they don't do is they don't drive all the way down to 10 feet of altitude and then come back up to 10,000 ft of altitude, then drive down to 10 feet. like they don't have the command of what's happening under them in a lot of cases or the patience or the empathy and and that's that's really problematic. Yeah. That's why we're here to teach that. Yeah. You know, so pay attention. We're this is life. These are these are life lessons that you can use. This is this is absolutely real. And you know even in a small entrepreneurial business a startup you're inclined as the the guy with the money on the table and or the person with the money on the table to you know to be forceful in your decision-m and so forth when you know if you can if you can discipline yourself to take a minute and ask your number two or number three and there may only be three or four of you in the whole darn company. ask everybody and you have a change management uh process, John, that I think it'd be I think covering that here is actually is interlaced with what we're talking about. You know, we can do that, but I'm going to take you back to Ry's question because you went way off the deep end like you just busted my chops on a few minutes ago. He talked about hiring people smarter than you in the jobs. And I would go back and say I don't think it's about hiring someone smarter than you. I think it's hiring the best person for the job that might be better than you at the job. like the there are very few jobs that I'm going to be the best at, but there are lots of jobs in companies I work with where people are going to be better than me at those jobs. And so recognizing one that I'm not going to be better than them over the long haul, I might not even be wired for that job. Um my brother-in-law um does environmental drilling and and he's really great at that and I could never, you know, my wife, you know, she's like, I would never want to work in a sales role again. and and but then it's a place that I can do. Okay. And and so but her job like I don't have the skill set for that. And so anyway, the bottom line is that I think it's not about finding the smartest people or the most people like you, which is a common mistake that people make. It's projecting themselves onto something else. And so the lesson for my 30-year-old self would be have enough self-awareness and enough self- assuredness that you can bring in someone who will be better than you and enough confidence to manage them, right?

[37:38] I mean, Michael Jordan was not the best basketball coach in the NBA. Stan Van Gundy could never have been a 15time Hall of Fame all-star basketball player. I don't think he was a basketball player at all in the NBA, was he? You'd know better than I Stan Van Gundy. No, I don't even know. He probably played in college. I have no idea if he what he but he I'm pretty sure he was never in the NBA except exceptional coach, right? And so I and then you have people who do both. Phil Jackson was a great NBA player and a great NBA coach. And so I think having having enough self-confidence to know you don't have to be the very best at it to manage it. Yeah, I think it's more than that, John. You know, I don't think anyone tries to not hire good people. I think it's the it comes with recognition after they're in in the jobs. And I and I can think of several examples where it was clear that a subordinate under a particular division head or general manager clearly was going to become something special and that division head or that GM or that manager suppressed that person's opportunity. Oh, for sure. And so, you know, we all try to hire good people. You know, they they pass the test, they go through the panels and so on and so forth. It's the recognition of that special talent and then drawing drawing it out of it. Giving that person assignments, give them the opportunity to show what they can do. Give them But self-awareness too. Well, Anthony, there's also a self-awareness like, hey, I've hit my limit in this place and this person may surpass me. So, how like what's my next step in my career without feeling threatened by them? No, that's but the reality is you you are threatened by them. It could be career limiting it. Some people don't act in the best interest of the company and that's where someone that's where somebody outside of that dynamic has to step in and be aware of what's happening to pull I don't think it's reasonable that people are then going to do the right thing. I think then someone outside of that dynamic has to step in and help that really talented subordinate through that process. Like there have to be it's not a reasonable thing to ask the manager to push the the employee past them. That'll happen in some cases but not regularly. Yeah, I'm not so much saying push them past them, but recognize the talent. You know, understand where that person wants to go and if there's a path for them that you can open up, then you do it. We are in a dynamic right now in this country.

[40:01] There's a very uh large four-letter word technology company that I know very well that is in the process of hacking off every employee over 50 years old and giving them a package, getting them out the door and bringing in talented people that are much lower dollar amount. And it's a it's a business strategy, right? So, how do those people feel? You know, how do the how do the 48-year-old men and women feel? Are they going to devote time and attention to the 36 year old to help them be ready to take them over at 50? I don't know. This could be this whole thing could unravel and backfire on these companies. You know, that the you know, the environment creates Are we Are we still in the 30-year-old self here? Yeah. Okay. Because I think I think that point is like what are you going to do to be a lifelong learner is what I'm taking from you because I think the people that are 48 50 years old who are more expensive because of their seniority whatever like so the question that I I would be ask and I do ask myself this like what value am I adding like like am I adding the value to right the the paycheck yeah know what I'm saying is that we're talking about recognizing talent and helping it nurture it nurture it and help it get worse I think companies are doing may be doing may and hinder that because you know a 50-year-old's got a still got a runway right and I'm not so sure that I if I'm in their position if I'm working to nurture somebody now am I really going to hire the best person am I really going to nurture that talent or am I going to you know you know have my department be so bare of talent that I'm the only person that can run this department so I don't know that's a it's a little off topic but it makes me think about behavior. It's a failure of the person above them to show that 50-year-old a career path. Like my my take on that situation would be who's given the 50-year-old the career path to 60 and 70 who's talking to them about that. And if you don't have the expertise to do that in your company, then bring in someone from the outside to have that conversation, help them with career planning. So, I want to go I want to go back to to the question is I mean really what I'm asking is hiring good people. Whether John talks about the best person for the job, I think trying to hire people smarter than you is a good strategy and acknowledge people are scared of it, but I just don't think they should be. I think that if you consistently go look for the best people, even if you think they're going to be good, better than you, that also shows your wisdom and your your value. Like that's a way to set yourself apart because you are willing to bring on the best people, build the best team. That in itself is a skill that even if they're smarter than you, they may not be better than you and you can rise. Like I I really think that I mean this podcast is called Tales of Abundance. And if you go out and you build it and it gets bigger, I just believe everybody wins. Yeah. I was talking to friend of mine, Major General Ken Oij was a one-star general who got promoted to two star and shortly after getting a second star decided that he was going to move on to the next part of his career. And I I said, you know, Ken, that's amazing you're making that decision and um I I you just got to this new role. Like I'm curious how you drove that decision. And he said, "Well, it's time." You like like this this billet is for somebody else and I've done the things I need to do here. And it was such a selfless and courageous and uh such a great act of leadership that he was like, I'll go find the next thing.

[43:38] Like that's that's my career progression. and he really had a very um I thought it was really healthy view of how he was going to you know even though he may not have had the exact answer he was very abundance-minded to use our language about that and um I I I think that's just a great great demonstration of leadership I think a lot of people have some uncertainty in that my point of view is that often times when we think things are really certain they're less certain and we think things are really uncertain they're less uncertain certain like it's never as bad as it seems. It's never as good as it seems. And and I think we just need to be honest with that about as we talk to employees or staff or partners. I think we just need to I'd like to see people be more sober about the reality of a situation. It's never as good as it seems. It's never as bad as it seems, you know, but that that's why I think all the stuff we talk about life planning, career planning, that's why, you know, that's why we talk about it. adjacent to your question about or not question your comment about hiring smarter people. A lot of our audience is entrepreneurs or people that are thinking about starting businesses. So it isn't just about intelligence. It's about bringing bringing the next person on that has a better than the skill that you could employ in that role. Yeah. So it's it's it's in so intelligence is one thing but skill and maybe that's a definition of intelligence. We could just say hire better people, right? A a employees if you want to look at it that way. That's a much better I think that's way better.

[45:14] I think we we correlate like really smart to being great at what they do and that's just not always the case. I think it's the right person for the job is the right is the right thing. Yeah. What's the definition of an A player? I mean the technical definition I've seen is that if you take a pay band for a skill set they're in the top six% of performers in return on investment of that pay band and skill set and then you can get that data through like performance data and through salary data. Yeah. So is that person on a piece of paper or is this you know how do you identify that human being? I I was going to say it's somebody that's excellent at their job. Right. When I interview people, we measure certain things. Like every job description has certain measures of success and you can ask them how they've measured that success in the same role previously. And you can figure out if they're bestin-class, middle of the road or not best in like I think there's ways to measure that in a in a stress-based behavioral interview. That's another topic for another day probably. But I I think I think you can measure I'm not saying you can measure it scientifically like like with absolute precision, but you can definitely get in the ballpark And I don't think I don't think it's a gut feel unless you're one of a very few people who has a natural talent for that. All right, with that, let's go to break. Uh we'll take a break. When we come back, we'll go into my my second piece of advice for 30-year-old self.

[46:26] Love it. Great. All right, listeners, welcome back to Tales of Abundance. Why settle for less? Uh we are talking about advice that we would give to our 30-year-old self. So, John and Anthony have given their first two. My my second one would be simply to ask better questions. And that's, you know, I I guess I went through a lot of things figuring that out myself and having to just thinking, how do you know how do you know you're asking bad questions or not good enough? Like how how like I hear that, but like if you said to a 30 if you said to my third year, I'd be like, "Okay, well, how do I know that I'm not asking great questions?" No. So, I think I just went with the flow too much. I wasn't deliberate enough, intentional enough. And I think, you know, the better questions would be things like, "What do you really want?" or what's the outcome that you're really after? And so a lot of that is is really being clear on what I want or what would have to be true. You know, there's things that I think I just discounted and I thought I can't do that. It wasn't true. It just I couldn't do it with my current circumstances and I should have been asking what would have to be true or what would have to change or what would have to not be true to get the answer I want to be able to to pursue what I really wanted or you know a question I like is what would it look like if it was 10x bigger 10x better 10x easier 10x more efficient um and you know thinking at scale what's the best model that's something you're great at John is you look at things and go into you know what have people done that have had this success in the past and how do I copy it, right?

[48:02] I have really just gotten better at that. I mean, for me, it took doing Iaska for God's sakes to get that message across to myself. I mean, that was that was a big takeaway from that instead of me having to start from the beginning. So, just asking there's a lot of humility in that too, right? Like recognizing there's a whole world of information before you and starting from the frontier of knowledge versus starting from from what I know like like that's a it takes real humility. Yeah. So, just asking more questions, asking better questions would be the other the other piece of advice I would give to 30-year-old Randy. So, John, let's go let's go to the next one. Oh, I mean from the next one really is just I end the letter with talking about gratitude and resilience. And I think I think you know um you know I tell my kids all the time there's only two things in the world you can control. your thoughts and your actions. And so you're going to get emotionally triggered, you're going to have other but how you react, how you so how you act and think are the things you can control. And I think you can choose a perspective of gratitude and you can choose to grow the skill set of resilience and uh those are things you know I think stoicism is a great way to think about resilience and I think that uh gratitude is a great way to position every day. And I I think with those two things for me, I've had a much happier life. And when I talk to people about those things, um you know, I I just think broadly speaking and generally speaking, right?

[49:31] So I think there's people that have, you know, mental health issues that are chemical in nature. I'm not talking about that. I'm just saying that by and large, gratitude and resilience, two things we can work on and they make a really big difference for the vast majority of people. I love that one. I wish it was on my list. I feel I feel like I that that should be on everybody's list. So So what are the tact what are the tactics to that you're going to teach your kids to leverage that? I think there's a couple things like for gratitude I you guys have seen my journal and so the gratitude journal says today I'm grateful for and I teach people including my kids if they want to use it that like you can just copy yesterday's answer if you're not sure. Just find something you can be grateful for. There's always something you can be grateful for if you choose to look for it. And so that's that's just the daily practice of journaling and writing it down and being grateful. And you can do that in the morning for yesterday or you can do it at the end of the day for today. And so that's gratitude. And then for resilience, it's really about what what belief systems you're going to let go of and what you're going to choose to replace them with. And so, uh, and without lying to yourself about it, like, you know, I don't like, you know, when I was in high school, waking up at five o'clock in the morning, but I, so I didn't say I love waking up at 5:00 in the morning. I I said to myself, I want the outcome more than I dislike the right? And so, that's just that kind of a stoic approach to things. And so, you know, I was I was I can't remember who I was talking to recently, but they were tweaked about something emotionally and they shared with me why and it wasn't factually correct. And I was like, "Hey, I hear that you have that feeling and I'm I'm not saying that feeling is not a legitimate emotion, but the underlying thing that tweaked you isn't true. Would you like those set of facts?" And then you can react to that. And for some people, the answer is no. And I get it.

[51:17] Some when you're tweaked, you're tweaked. I got it. You know, once my wife woke up and she dreamt about something about me and she was upset with me about it. I can't fix that. And she knew logically that was, you know, not what she wanted, but that was just so so emotions are emotions for real. How you deal with them is something different. So I think for people that are a little older um than, you know, high school, you know, Marcus Aurelius wrote the book Meditations. I think maybe you've read meditations at one point. Parts of parts of it. Yeah. Have you read meditations? It's sits on my uh dresser and I probably read it a dozen times. Yeah, it's such a great book for just how to handle emotions. And so I think I think when you talk about resilience, I think it's a skill set. You have to practice it. So it's a skill. You learn the skill and then you exercise and practice that skill to become more resilient. And it's not easy, but I think it's important. And that's that's what I would do. All right. I I love the gratitude one. I that just that you know I I actually think some of the earlier stuff we talked about picking the right job, picking the right people can help all of that should be tied to the gratitude.

[52:22] Yeah. And and if you have the right job, you're more likely to be grateful for that or the right income or whatever it is that creates that. Being around people that are great that are grateful is a big decision and you know picking that great that gratitude as well. So all right, Anthony, what's your third self, and I'm going to steal it from uh the father of the founder of Lululemon, Chip Wilson. He asked his dad at his dad was an aging hippie. Uh probably five or six years older than I am right now. And he asked him, "What would you tell your 40-year-old self?" I've I heard this about 10 years ago, so a little bit before I started the my first company, and it was just do it. Just effing do it. So what as I when I go back to those opportunities I had to start my own business, be funded by people that love me, I should have just done it.

[53:26] Um, I should have just taken that trip. I should have not got on that plane, flown across the country, and missed my kids little league All-Star game. You know, it's just do it. And the gratitude piece gives you the opportunity to stop and think about what's important and not just be reactive. So, I would take that advice. Yeah, I think that's great advice, right? I mean, I I think very few people really regret the chances they take, right? We regret the ones we didn't take. Yeah, absolutely. You know, the one I don't know why I've thought about this recently. I hadn't thought about it in years, but when I was 22, 23 years old, I lived in Iowa at the time when it's still in my my vector days. I was offered a state senate or state rep seat that just I was in a district where I just would have been automatically elected. The guy that had held the seat for 40 years was retiring. And this kind of goes back to my five. And I didn't want to be a lifetime politician. I didn't want to sell my soul. I didn't want to have to like say yes, I will take your money to get elected. So then I I just didn't want to have to owe people and go through all that BS that is tied with politics. And I could see it that that was there. And but I think about it and I think well why didn't I just go do it for whatever a term was four years or whatever it was. I think they only met two weeks a year. Like who knows what opportunities would have sprang out of that and what I would have learned and what wisdom and connections and everything else. And I just again this kind of goes back to my five. I didn't think that way then. I just didn't think about the value of that or really place any value in it. I wasn't smart enough or wise enough, but I absolutely should have said yes to that even if it was for four years just to get the experience. I'm reading a book now that is one of the three books I'm reading. I think you maybe gave it to is the square in the tower. Is that one that you gave me? Did you give that one?

[55:28] It's about the network effect. So, I'm only a few pages into it now. I'll tell you more about it some other episode, but it talks a lot about the network effect which impacts the five. So, more more to come on that one. Yeah. So I I think that's great advice, Anthony, is what I'm saying is like I I definitely could have heard that now. That would have been my 22 or 23 or year old self or something. I think I think at a younger age you're encumbered a little bit more than you are at 40. You know, there is there's a lot going on in your 20s, you know, you're just trying to determine who you are and a lot of times you're not in a position to make a bold decision, you know, as we talked about earlier. But, you know, by the time you're 40, you you know, you should be well on your way to whatever you're on your way to and you may be slightly better off financially and can take the risk and weigh that risk. So, yeah, I when I think about that and I think it takes the same thing at 50 and the same thing at 60, it's it's just it's just do it with thought, right? with a with a clear decision strategy, but you know, take advantage of it because, you know, as we'll talk about in later episodes, you know, life is pretty darn short and um at least this life. And I think it applies to more than the job, right? It could be, like you said, it could be the trip, it could be asking out the girl, it could be whatever it is, right? Like take the leap and and I think Yeah. because the regrets tend to be the leaps we don't take. So, good. Um, my third one, I guess you guys both had three. I had I put four, but the fourth one we kind of covered was follow your passions, be more intentional, we've already talked about. So, my my other one was just think bigger. And I think, you know, it's interesting.

[57:15] A lot of the five I was surrounded with, again, this ties back to the five, I was the big thinker in the group. And people used to comment all the time like, "Oh my god, you think so big." But I really didn't. Not, you know, when I think of thinking big, I'm thinking Elon Musk thinks big, right? I mean, he's like, "Well, nobody's been able to have a private rocket company, but and they've all failed, but I'm going to do this. I'm going to do it for a fraction of the budget, and oh, by the way, we're going to go to freaking Mars, right?" And everything he's done, like that's really big thinking. I mean, that's another level. And there's other examples, but I was nowhere near that scale. And my, you know, my big thinking, my thinking was big compared to people around me, but not big compared to society. You used to want, wasn't one of your dreams to own an NFL franchise? I've always said that. So there is part of it is having a billion dollars and you know, I've had money, lost money, had money, lost money. You know, the the first thing with the internet company, I mean, there was a real shot at being a billionaire there if that thing went on a little further. And the only thing that would probably really be different in my life is I would have tried to buy the Vikings. That's it.

[58:30] Like a lot of the other things just aren't that important to me. So yes, I would love to like that takes ungodly amounts of income, but a lot of the things that other people want money for are just not. You know, one of the great questions, one of the great questions we started asking each other in our group is what would have to be true if and so what would have to be true if you could be a part owner of the Vikings without having a billion dollars? Like maybe we don't think about that right now in this moment, but I just it just hit me like what would have to be true for you to not get to a billion dollars but still be able to be an owner of the Vikings? I don't want to be I wouldn't want to be the part of I mean that'd be better than nothing, but I want to be I want to be the Jerry Jones type. Like I don't want to be meddling and be on the media and the press and all that like Jerry Jones, but I would want to actually be involved in the team if I So, what would have to be true? Like I I don't know if we can answer in this very episode, but what would have to be true for you to have the influence you want to have on the team you love as you wear Cardinal Red today? You'd have to marry his daughter. Where his daughter? That's not going to happen, but Well, you never know. Oh, Julie coming to get you. All right, honey. That was Anthony that said that.

[59:37] Yes. Yeah, Julie, that was Anthony that said that. All right. All right. Anything you guys want to add to this list? Julie. Anthony said that. Yeah. It's all right. She's got a good sense of humor. Anything you guys want to add? Anything Anything that you want to add beyond the the three that we've had? I you know, for me, I think it's just not just my 30-year-old self and me learning, but what do I want to be deliberate about passing on to my kids and other people? Like I the habits one was the one that popped up for me today. Like that's my takeaway is I need to make sure that I'm communicating that to my family is like the hab like because there are habits that are deliberate and there are habits that are accidental and I want to I think I'm going to go do a little audit on like what are my accidental habits. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say that you know to the listeners irrespective of your age and condition and where you are in your career I would be retrospective and look back and do this exercise because it may not be too late. You know it it's it and I'm a survey of one who started a business at 60 years old went back and got his MBA at 40. Um it it it isn't too late. So reflect on it and be conscious of what your opportunities are and what would bring you joy and would bring is your passion Okay. Love it. So also uh listeners you can follow us on social media wherever uh Facebook, Twitter or X as it's now called Instagram, LinkedIn. I posted on there last night or yesterday afternoon asking followers what advice they would give. Um Vince Humphre responded who is a a previous guest. You can listen to his episode if you haven't. But his answer was learn to do what you love starting today. Um Darlene who actually might be a good a good guest in the future as well said listen to that little voice on your shoulder even if it's trivial like take an umbrella. I saved myself a lot of time and heartache once I finally figured that out. So, that's a couple of our our listeners and the advice they gave. Um, another friend of mine texted me last night. I love that section, by the way. We should do this more often. Keep going. I love this. Okay. Um, another person friend of mine texted me last night. And his answer was, "Don't sell your Bitcoin and he just said he couldn't keep doing it because he kept making him sick because he had 25 over 25,000 Bitcoin back in the day." He was a fellow poker player and that he sold them. He he didn't really understand it or think of it, but he had 25,000 25,000 and do the math real quick for me. At $100,000 million I mean no 250 million, right? 25 Wait, 25,000. You'd have um No, that'd be 2.5 billion. 2 Okay, I'm going to do the math here. You guys keep going. I'm going to do the like I I think it's two and a half billion. I'm going to find out. It's pretty embarrassing that we can't move the zeros. Let's see. So, we'll see. So you have two 25,000 times a,000 is 25 million then 250 2.5 billion. Thank you.

[1:02:35] So in the billions. So he just said he he kept he kept typing it and he finally just he said it all just ties back to the Bitcoin. But he actually had a great up perspective on it. He was like he just said he wasn't he probably wasn't ready for that kind of money and wealth and it it used to be used to move around poker sites and and back in the day. I hope he has at least 10 now which so anyway that was the answer from the from the user. So users, uh, follow us on social media. We would love to get your input on future topics like this. Uh, in the meantime, download, give us a thumbs up, tell your friends, tell your family, and, uh, thank you for listening to Tales of Abundance. Why settle for less? Take credit.