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Space Is the New Wild West: Asteroid Mining, AI & the Race Beyond Earth

Episode 91 · 16 September 2026 · 56 min

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Show notes

Asteroid Mining, Space Debris and the Race Beyond Earth

Asteroid mining is closer than most people think, and the orbit around Earth is getting crowded. David Godwin, co-founder and chairman of Slingshot Aerospace, explains the space debris problem, how space situational awareness works, and what a software entrepreneur with no aerospace background needs to break into the space race.

Space is running out of room. Right now, 16,000 satellites and over a million pieces of debris are orbiting Earth — and a single paint chip traveling at 17,500 mph can destroy a billion-dollar spacecraft. David Godwin built the solution.

David is the co-founder and chairman of Slingshot Aerospace — the world's most advanced space situational awareness company. They call it "air traffic control for orbit, but with a brain." In this episode, he breaks down exactly what's happening in the orbital Wild West above our heads, why the asteroid mining gold rush is closer than most people realize, and what it actually takes to build a company in the space industry when you're not an aerospace engineer.

Space Debris, Space Situational Awareness and the Asteroid Mining Gold Rush

What you'll discover:

  • How Slingshot Aerospace's AI-powered sensor network watches everything moving in orbit — and tells satellites not just to move, but exactly how far to move to stay safe for days ahead
  • Why 1.2 million pieces of untracked space debris could eventually "landlock" humanity on Earth — and why a single breakup event can trigger a chain reaction
  • The asteroid mining gold rush: why it's not science fiction, what rare metals and water ice on the moon mean for Earth's scarcity problems, and why Starship changes everything
  • How a software entrepreneur with zero aerospace background co-founded a space company — and what "space DNA" you actually need to break in
  • The real race to the moon: China, the US, prime lunar real estate, and the "blind spot in cislunar space" that could shift global power

Timestamps

  • [00:00] How much stuff is actually in space?
  • [01:10] David's background — entrepreneur, not an engineer
  • [02:57] First companies: video games, enterprise SaaS, five businesses in
  • [04:26] Where did your interest in space come from?
  • [05:49] What is Slingshot Aerospace? Air traffic control for orbit
  • [08:47] How one paint chip can destroy a billion-dollar satellite
  • [09:44] How fast is space debris actually moving? (17,500 mph)
  • [11:47] Crisscrossing orbits — 3D collisions explained
  • [14:17] What happens when two satellites are on a collision course?
  • [16:51] Geopolitics in space: the Wild West of orbit
  • [17:38] Asteroid mining and the new gold rush
  • [19:06] Space resources: water, oxygen, rocket fuel, rare metals
  • [20:25] Things David thought were science fiction that turned out to be real
  • [25:18] How entrepreneurs can break into the space industry
  • [33:52] What "space DNA" means — and why you can't build without it
  • [36:21] US vs. China: optimistic or pessimistic about the space race?
  • [41:08] Closing thoughts from David
  • [42:58] Abundance Briefing: AI solves a 90-year math problem in 88 hours
  • [47:05] Rescue drones as flying life preservers
  • [52:03] Nuclear power in orbit — the $161 million bet

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About David Godwin

David Godwin is the co-founder and chairman of Slingshot Aerospace, the leading commercial space situational awareness company. A serial entrepreneur with exits in gaming, enterprise SaaS, and notification technology (Alert Media), David brings the operator's lens to the final frontier.

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Transcript

A full transcript is below. It was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect some spelling errors in names and terms.

[00:01] David Godwin, who's the chairman of Slingshot Aerospace and the founder, I might add. And David, when you and I first started talking about this, I could not believe how many objects there are in space, give or take. Are we talking like hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands? How many things are actually in space around what what you know the places you're looking at with all the cameras you've got? — Yeah, I mean, so right now there's over 16,000 working satellites in orbit. Now, a lot of those are part of Starlink, so a good majority of them. But it's it's a lot of spacecraft currently. It's not only the satellites that we're thinking about. It's also the 46,000 or so tracked debris objects, which people believe, and scientists believe that there's more like 1.2 million pieces of space debris that we can't see beyond that. There's a lot going on in our orbit. And this is talking about specifically the orbits of Earth and not when you got to the moon and beyond and all that stuff which we can talk about later but but there's a lot there's a lot floating around our planet and some of them are man-made spacecraft some are natural debris. Some are debris from spacecraft that broke up in the past and so there's just a lot happening out there. Amazing. Well, we'll come back and talk in a minute about Slingshot Aerospace and what a digital twin is but first let's talk about how you got into space. I mean you're not an aerospace engineer by background. No, not at all.

[01:21] I I've met a lot of them now and uh and there's a lot a lot more smart people out there in the space environment, in the space ecosystem than me. So, I'm I'm one of the dumb guys. — Well, take Yeah, we know that's not true. Take us through your career. How did you get here? — I was really fortunate going back to the very beginning. I was really fortunate. I grew up in a household where my father and grandfather both started companies. So I kind of grew up in an entrepreneurial household which I think is something that a lot of people don't recognize as a true benefit to entrepreneurship like you know in other countries done a lot of international travel a lot of I'm a big proponent of entrepreneurs worldwide and uh other countries don't have the benefit of having a lot of households that have started businesses and grown businesses in the way that entrepreneurship in America has grown. It's something that I think we forget where we all might have had a relative or a parent or somebody that started a business from that growing up in that environment. It's possible and you know you can do it or you may want to do it. But if you live in an environment or another country that is not real common because the government does a lot of it or whatever then it's not a natural thing to think about you may want to go start a business. So when I say I'm blessed, that's that's why is I not only did I grow up in an America where where entrepreneurship was normal, but also my father and grandfather. I grew up in a household where I kind of grew up thinking, "Oh, I'll own my own business one day." And so so I started out actually as a software engineer. I started hacking apart video games. I'm a big video game geek. Started hacking apart video games when I was 8 years old. And then I and then taught myself to code. This is back in the early 80s when being a software engineer was way nerdier than it is now. Still nerdy but not as nerdy. And and so I uh taught myself to code, kind of went into the business world, did a lot of enterprise type systems. So think early SAS enterprise type systems. And then in 99 started my first business that was successful. And so I'm on to my fifth business now that looks like it's going to be successful. And I've been kind of going through different industries. I'm very industry agnostic. I've had a game studio. I recently launched another game studio. I've got Slingshot, which is space company. I helped co-found Alert Media, which is a notification and messaging alert company.

[03:34] — In your gaming company, go back to the gaming company, David. You guys actually had an exit to a really well-known gaming company. — Yeah. Well, it was a kind it was a it was a gaming studio that that went public with us and several other studios over in over in England and since then they've gone to other places and everything. But but yeah, back in 2012 I exited my first game studio. Gaming is a passion of mine. So it's it's something that I'll always stay close to. I'm not going to say it's a it's a it's a big kind of like the movie industry. It's big swings, big businesses kind of thing. So it's a little bit riskier than doing a kind of somewhere in between organically grown SAS business which is a little bit more predictable but you know even SAS businesses these days with AI going the way it is are a little bit more at risk as far as safe investment goes. So it'll it'll be an interesting time for entrepreneurship over the next 10 years or so I think. So — David with that background where did your interest in space come from? Is it something that happened? I'm I'm always curious. Did it happen over time and things one led to another? Did you grow up dreaming of it?

[04:36] — Yeah, I mean the grow up dreaming of it story really belongs to my co-founder Melanie Strickland and Tommy Ashman. I uh of course I love space. I grew up in with the shuttles and and all that stuff and and I grew up as a fantasy sci-fi geek on the gaming side and reading books and so the idea of space and humankind getting there and doing great things there. Um that's always been something that's been interesting to me and exciting to me. For the more traditional kind of following every mission, tracking satellites in space, those type of things. My co-founders were both into that. And so when we met, um I had already exited a couple businesses. Um, I kind of came in as the entrepreneur side of it and knowing how to raise money from investors and grow businesses and those things. And some of our original business ideas that we kind of looked at just did didn't land from a pure where we saw white space and growth and all those type things. And so, but we ended up at Slingshot pretty quickly. It took us about six eight months of kind of building models, thinking through doing customer interviews, those kind of things. And then we launched Slingshot in 2018. I mean, we actually started in 2017, but we really got going in 2018. So, — what what is Slingshot? I mean, tell I have a pretty good idea, but when you were coming on, I didn't have a clue. I don't think most people have heard of it. So, can you tell people just what does it do? What is your mission? What what problems are you trying to solve?

[06:01] Yeah. So, Slingshot is all about understanding what's happening in space and helping people navigate and and be aware of everything in space. So, think of a think of someone that understand Oh, think of air traffic control, right? Like that's that's probably the best kind of analogy that's that's simple to understand. Air traffic control for orbit but with a brain. We watch everything moving in space. We tell you what's normal, what's weird, and what to do about it. And it's not only what to do about it. It's not only like, hey, you should move right. It's you should move right this far so that you don't have to maneuver tomorrow or the next day because I forget what the number is offhand, but Starlink maneuvers some amazing amount of times per day. It's pretty incredible what SpaceX doing with their constellation, but they have to move a lot. And so what we're trying to do is trying to also or are doing shouldn't say trying are doing is giving our customers the best way to maneuver for the long term for whatever their mission is. Whether it's you know just avoid other spacecraft and space debris or to maneuver into the right place. Fuel is the lifeblood of a spacecraft. Once it's out of fuel it's pretty much done with its mission and has to be retired. And so the the more optimal you can be with your maneuvers the better. But it's really a whole I mean our slingshot overall goes through an entire spectrum of things. We we sense we have an entire sensor network worldwide that that takes down more data daily than almost anyone else in the world. Definitely more than most than anyone I can think of commercially. We take down more data than most governments. And so we understand what we really see what's going on in space on a regular real-time basis. And then we take that data and we fuse it together with other data sources and other knowledge and other databases we have. And then we can give that information to our customers. But then we take it a step further with our AI where we can actually tell our customers what the best way to act or react or move is. and and that's useful for everything from defense to uh civilian spacecraft to mission planning to simulating you know scenarios for individual spacecraft complete fleets force management that includes ground capabilities for military like so we go across the spectrum of what we do a lot of our competitors are more specific to one domain so someone may have sensors for geo or may have sensors for LEO or may be focused on putting a starbase near the moon like we're we're across domains. Uh we look into all regimes all the way up to the moon right now with that when I was learning about slingshot, I learned that like even the smallest thing in space because of the speeds that are involved like David, what were you telling me about like how how one little object can take out an entire satellite? It was super small.

[09:01] — Yeah. No, it's I mean centimeters you can have a centimeter paint chip equivalent, right? That could be going at incredible speeds that might hit a critical component within a in a spacecraft. And a lot of those spacecraft are hardened, but but not the the potential for damage with debris with big pieces especially is is reasonably high risk. We track those. We try to help mitigate that. But even the small one, the small pieces of debris can be dangerous and/or deadly to a spacecraft or a human being if those things aren't accounted for either through shielding or sensor kind of ability to maneuver out of the way of them. So — we're talking hundreds of thousands of miles an hour. How fast are these things — I was afraid you were going to ask that and I [laughter] do not — I don't have that with me, but yeah, it's it's it's fast enough to puncture through metal kind of speeds, right? And so I don't want to misquote it. That's why I'm not answering it because I could I could say, "Yeah, I think so." But there is the risk to the space station for instance. And when humans go up in space, that's treated with like high top priority, no risk taken kind of thing as far as as much risk prevention as you can do. And so when there's a breakup of a spacecraft, that's why that you hear like they'll they'll move the astronauts into the the attached spacecraft.

[10:23] they'll get them out of the space station cuz the space station space station gets punctured then you have environmental issues and the spacecraft itself is is one it's hard and two it's maneuverable it can get back to earth quickly you know those kind of things. So that's that's my understanding of why they move the the astronauts. But every time there's a breakup that's anywhere near the space station, even remotely near, you will you'll see them move the astronauts into the attached spacecraft that can maneuver and get off the space station if needed. — Just and they'll get they'll get in their space suits and everything so there's as much protection as possible for whatever may happen. According to according to to Gemini, about 17,500 miles an hour is the norm, but depending on how close they are, low Earth, far Earth, where they are in orbit. Yeah. Different. But that that's that's pretty — Yeah. I've I've heard it and and talked about in the past. I just It's not a number to hold on to cuz all I know is it's fast enough to puncture through things that are metal. That's fast enough, right? I'm just thinking getting hit by a baseball when I was a kid that was going say 90 miles an hour, — And 90 is not even moving compared to 17,500 mph. So yeah, that that seems — that's a good point. Yeah, exactly.

[11:39] Yeah. You think about like even a car going 150 m an hour hitting something, it's going to do damage to that something even if that something's pretty solid. I have a really stupid question and I apologize for it, but are things traveling in the same direction or are these satellites they're criss they're crisscrossing and they're different different circular orbits? — Totally crisscrossing. You know, imagine like one of the big deserts, you know, a big chunk of desert and like you putting all drivers and car put a bunch of cars around the edge of it from different angles pointing at each other and just random direction. Think of a random generator, right? and just pointing cars different ways and then putting blindfolds on people that are driving and saying, "Go full speed." And that's that's kind of what you're dealing with, right? And maybe there's someone in their earpiece going, "Hey, turn right. Turn right. No, no, no. Turn left." Now, that kind of thing's happening. And it's a very real problem. Now, space is big. So, imagine you did that with, let's say, a thousand cars over a whatever 100 mile radius. Okay, no big deal, right? Like, probably aren't going to hit each other. But you start compressing that area or putting more cars in that area in that same kind of radius and all of a sudden there's real risk to collision, right? And if that collision happens, then let's go run that again, that same scenario with the wrecks in place and see if the people randomly hit those wrecks, right?

[12:59] — Hopefully that makes sense. It's weird. — Well, and we like to give crap to Anthony for asking stupid questions. That was a good one, Anthony. That wasn't a bad question. Oh, what I was thinking about was the 17,000 m going — probably the best question so far. — That's right. [laughter] More to come. [clears throat] But the 17,000 mph going east and then 17,000 mph going west. That's a heck of a lot more than 17,000 mph upon the collision. — yeah, cuz cuz that matters, Anthony. Cuz that matter cuz cuz at 175 you you might only get a dinging me a paint job. — I will expand on that, Anthony. It's not just like directional like you're thinking left right kind of remember you're in a 3D space. So things could be going like this across each other or whatever, but they're also going like this. And so it's there's a lot of dynamic kind of behavior there that and the physics are known, but they're hard physics also. And space is a hard environment. So there's just a lot of variables that go into that. That's a lot more complex than a car driving across a desert, whatever, right? Like, and so it's something that before I got into the space industry and started Slingshot, I really didn't understand.

[14:05] Thanks to my co-founders and our employees and everyone I've met on this journey, I've become quite educated on it, but there's been people that have been spending 30 years in this industry that know a heck of a lot more about it. So, from a dynamic standpoint, — the the next brilliant question is when you see something, you have clients, all different kinds of clients, and you see something that could be troublesome. Okay, there's there's a potential — Walk us through both. both of these objects are clients of yours andor one is a client of yours and one isn't. How do you what's the process that you go through to alert people make the changes and so what happens? Tell us what happens. — I would say that as everyone knows especially these days geopolitics is a is a very real thing. And so we work with most space companies that I would consider us and allies or friends even, right? But uh but we don't work with typically Russian or Chinese companies right now because of the current political environment those type of things and other nations that you can imagine are kind of grouped into that group and so we don't have space is a shared worldwide domain kind of thing and unfortunately the collaboration and communication between let's call it the China camp, Russia camp and US camp kind of thing like there's just not a lot of communication and collaboration So the answer is no. We don't talk to everyone that's in space. We will um if we think there's something critical going to happen, we will reach out and send a message out to company in China or whatever if we have to. But generally speaking, we try to advise our companies and our customers on how to what they should do. We focus on what they can do and effect, right? And so I do think that just as a citizen of planet Earth, I think we need a lot more collaboration around space and coordination and that just like we people nations get into fights over who can fish where, like I don't know that anyone thinks that's awesome that we have to go through all that, but we need we need more um definitely need more communication, more rules of the road. You know, what's going to happen with the moon? We've got China up in the moon and and the US has to respond because they're they may get ahead of us and there's there's real reasons to do that, you know, and so it's who's there first helps write the rules. Prime real estate is actually very small. Even though the moon's big, the prime real estate is pretty small on it. There's a blind spot in cis lunar where you can't see what somebody else is doing. And so you have an adversarial relationship and they can do stuff in that blind spot that could be very dangerous. And so — sounds like the wild west up there. Is is this the wild west all over again?

[16:54] — Totally. Yeah. To totally wild west. As a matter of fact, I know I'm skipping around a little bit, but like asteroids, right? Let's talk about asteroids because wild west analogy. I was thinking about that earlier actually. Asteroid mining will be a thing. Okay. It's it's been tried a few times. it was too early. But with Starship going up, with SpaceX going up with heavy, really heavy payloads and capability, you're going to start seeing fuel stations in orbit, data centers in orbit, that then enables the layer of mining asteroids cuz you can get further out and you can build that supply chain to get there. There's some companies right now sending out sending out probes into deep space to intercept asteroids. Their next mission will be to land on an asteroid. The next mission after that will be take sample, see if you can bring it back kind of thing. and and asteroids are made of rare metals that are that are highly valuable, needed, desired. And so if you think about the Wild West analogy, like where we're headed over the next, let's call it 5 years probably is the panhandler guy that's like in the river like shaking for gold and a nugget or two. That's what we'll be doing first. Mines will come after that, right? True asteroid mining operations will come after that. And so we're at the very early stages of, you know, let's consider Starship and the stuff going on with other launch companies like Rocket Labs and others that are there's a German company now that just had their first successful launch that really put stuff in orbit. There's a lot of companies now that it's not just SpaceX. There's competitors out there.

[18:24] And so think of it as the railroads are being laid in the Wild Wild West. And now we're looking to be like, okay, how can we harvest value? you know, territory, mining, uh, get people out there, people want to settle, they want the new life, whatever, right? Like those things are are starting to become a real reality. So, this is so great because it really does tie into abundance so much. We're tales of abundance and there's so much of a war and nations and all this conflict is people fighting over scarcity or scarce resources. you're telling us is they at some point in the notsodistant future, we'll be able to land on asteroids and have pretty much unlimited resources. That that's what I hear. — That's correct. Yeah. And and there's there's everything from looking at it's not only min it's not only high value minerals, there's also water out in space and we know water is a huge issue right now on Earth. And so the South Pole, there's water water ice at the South Pole that is not only water, it's also oxygen, which could potentially also lead to rocket fuel type stuff, right? And so there's all types of things about the moon that are really interesting that could help stage for the next segment of the railway, right?

[19:36] And so they have a there's a really cool project going on to get to the moon where they've they've got it's called Gateway and it's going to be basically a lunar space station that the US and allies are working on. commercial. A lot of commercial companies are involved in that. You know, there's a there's a NASA NASA and DOE thing where they're doing fision power or going to try to put fision power up there. So, there's just a bunch of stuff going on that's really kind of infrastructure laying uh to get us again get the rail railroad tracks to the moon and then from there we can go and push out further even. So, — and the good news, it'll be a good it'll be a not I wouldn't say safer, but it'll well safer is the right word, not safe. — Safer way to test out some of these things. So, then once you've got that pattern down, you should be able to then scale outward even further. — That's mind-boggling. What So, what are some of the things about spa because you were you were new to the space industry just a few years ago. What are some things about space that you thought were total BS that as you got into the industry you were shocked that like Star Trek was real?

[20:40] — I think the one of the things is someone was talking about data centers out in orbit early on. I saw a pitch I I'm an entrepreneur first an operator first but I also invest in companies. So I get a lot of pitches and so data centers in space I saw a pitch for that back in 2017 18 and it didn't go anywhere. Now that's there are especially with LLMs and AI like now that's becoming a very real thing where people are like hm okay there's some real benefit to potentially putting data centers in space who would have known right like I mean I was I I wasn't skeptical necessarily of it I thought there would be some level of internet but like I was thinking sat old satphone technology kind of internet but I have a starling mini in my pickup truck it's it's in the sunroof little area and it literally is inside my sunroof underneath the hood of the ceiling of my car. Don't even know it's there. But every time I turn on my truck, I have full Starlink broadband Wi-Fi, right? Which is great for road trips and stuff like that and camping and all that stuff. But it's, you know, tech geek, so I had it. But — you got to talk about how you're camping, David. Like like I think maybe you're missing some of the point. We'll come back to that later. What What was it that what what was it that people are talking about space that that seems like it's real, but actually we're a lot further away than we think we are? Like are we getting the triquarter? Are we going to have one device that can scan your entire body like the like the doctor in Star Trek? Are we there yet? I think so. NASA and space and everyone that's been in space, all the space agencies, I won't even I'm not I may include the the Russians and like all the space agencies have come up with things that we've brought back to Earth and have done incredible things with out of necessity cuz you go do something in space and you're like, "Wow, that actually makes a lot of sense on on Earth as well." And so I think we're going to see as we solve for the moon problem and the beyond problem, you're going to see a lot of technology coming back down. The triquarter thing, I would love it. I wish we could cuz we all know our healthcare industry overall worldwide probably needs a little bit of a boost and and figuring out. But especially as you get older, you realize like god it'd be so cool if I could just do one blood test or have something scan me and tell me what's wrong with this ache that I've got right now. Right?

[22:52] like like it's not there yet. I mean, there's people trying that, but that's more those are more earth-based healthcare entrepreneurs trying that type of stuff. I do think that space could drive some of that to reality. And I went and saw I got a tour when we first started the company. I got invited to an event at in Houston at the at NASA down there and and got a tour of the some of the astronaut kind of training facilities and stuff like that. And one of the things I I was like still early and I was like, "Wait, how do how does water work like on the space station and stuff like that and it's it's a recycling system. I mean, they use restroom, whatever, recycles it all." And it sounds kind of gross or whatever, but they they've refined that to where it's pretty incredible technology. So then you think about Earth and all these water problems we're hearing about and the alerts we're getting and all that stuff about you look at Lake Meade and all the stuff that's happening there. like we need some of that techn we need to invest in more of that type technology for Earth. There are a lot of people that are like I I think there's a push back. It's like anything edgy like think about AI or space. There are people that are going to push back against technology advancements until you provide them with the benefits of those things and then some people adopt some people don't. But like the on the space side, there's a lot of people that complained about Amazon or or Jeff Bezos launching rockets, right, and taking celebrities and stuff. And okay, maybe that was a little bit of a publicity stunt, but what they're doing from a technology standpoint is very real and good for humankind. Like the ability to bring back technology that can help us on Earth. Where what what does it matter what drove that as long as we get to that technology point? and space the the amount of technology that's been brought brought back from space efforts has definitely advanced humanity and helped with clean drinking water and sewage systems and all the basic necessities of life. those things. A lot of that technology came from space or came from even defense, you know, funding, right?

[24:51] I think that when people sit back and just look at it at a very high level, it doesn't make a lot of sense why we're investing all this money in space as a humankind kind of thing, but the benefits to humankind on Earth are very, very real. And so, and they may not, the education may not be there to prove that or to show that, but it but it is there. a little bit of research, a little bit of a little bit of reading and you'll and you know it's inarguable. — Yeah. So guys, I want to try to shift David from space kind of back into entrepreneurship unless you guys have any last questions about space. — A I well I guess a question we talked about mining like if if we're mining the moon, we're mining asteroids, we're doing all this, there's more satellites, there's more rockets. I mean you're talking all of this debris that's up there now. I'm just thinking, oh my god, there's a mining operation on a satellite or on a on a meteor, a comet, an asteroid. — Like, how much debris gets knocked? I mean, are there rocks that getting knocked off? Is there the equivalent of a of a shovel and a pick and now that stuff's flying around? I mean, I'm I'm just thinking, wow, this is going to this is going to be an exponentially bigger problem. Well, I think go let's go back to the Old West scenario. Okay, the guy with the with the the pan and then eventually the mines that came out in the in the West back in the day, no one cared about the debris they left or the environmental problems they created until we got there. So, it's it's an interesting point, but like what we're not going to be mining in the orbits of Earth. So the problem of creating more debris in the Earth zone, let's say the the the orbits of Earth, that's a little bit of a less of a concern, but I think you bring up a good point. What we may do is go out there, if we don't do it right, and think about keeping it relatively clean with what we do, then we may be creating problems further out for a different generation 100 years from now, right? But but I think that and I think that's worth considering.

[26:49] And I'm not trying to be dismissive of that at all, but the benefit of getting mining out around where the asteroid belt is and asteroids are available. It keeps dirty mining off of Earth. So, it helps keep Earth cleaner. And again, water is something that we know is an issue and we want to try to figure out how to how to continue to have available. And asteroids also can provide a source for fuel in space. And so, that'll help further that. Uh anyway, so there there's a there there's a lot of reasons why why it's good. I think that the the side effects of that aren't our generation type problems, but if we're not careful, we could create issues for future generations. Yeah. Even even more satellites, data centers, all that stuff adds to it. Is there a I mean, John, taking you back to entrepreneurship. There's an seems to me there's a big entrepreneurial opportunity and not just avoiding the collision, but cleaning cleaning it up as well. That somebody somebody out there listening to us right now should should start that company. There are companies there are companies that are after that. There are companies that are creating nets. They're create that that can scoop up space trash. There are companies that are looking for ways to bring the spacecraft the the debris down and burn it up in orbit kind of thing.

[28:09] And so there are companies that have started with that. Some are some are looking very successful. Some are are struggling. The real problem I think I haven't talked to the CEO and and one of the there's a company that's leading that, but like I I suspect one of the problems is going to be who's going to pay for it's like the ocean trash. Like what government is paying for that, you know? Yeah. some funding goes to it. It's kind of whatever. But we kind of turn a blind eye to it as a as humankind. And so that's a concern is that we do the same thing with orbit with with our orbits. The real problem is if we don't if we don't take care of the orbits, the problem gets exponentially worse. So imagine if you hit one spacecraft hits another, creates a debris field. That debris field hits more spacecraft, creates more debris. We could landlock ourselves to Earth and then all that benefit of how do we continue to evolve? How do we how do we put some of the harder things on Earth up in orbit to offload it from our planet and and really relieve tension on our planet? Those things become unre unrealizable if if we mess up our orbits. And so we got to be very careful about that. And you know what and again just talking about the benefits because I think it's an important topic that that that again it only helps to educate like think about data centers in orbit if you can reduce the you know everyone reads about oh my god AI centers are ruining water are just consuming so much water and ruining that for everybody like if we can get data centers up on orbit regularly then you can push that AI processing up to orbit where it's super cold it's less of a problem and uh people are working on real solutions.

[29:46] for that right now. So again, it helps our Earth by getting more things up in orbit and getting more capabilities out into space. — So like the Wild West, it's going to open up a huge amount of entrepreneurial opportunity for people. And so you didn't come from space. And so I think it'd be easy for someone listening to go, well gosh, you don't have to know anything about space and you can get right into it. There's some truth to that. But you also had partners that had a deep, deep expertise in space. How does somebody who wants to kind of take advantage of this wild west opportunity? Like what are the things they need to think through, go through, learn about? Like how does somebody dive in? Because we want smart people pushing that frontier. How do we get people who don't know anything about space, not aerospace engineers, but they're passionate, smart entrepreneurs. How do you tell someone to like get started? — Yeah. Being a good businessman is not enough. You got to have some space DNA in whatever company you build. Now, could you start a space company not being a space person? Sure. But your first hires better be space experts that have been doing it for 20 30 years. And so because it there's two reasons. One is um the expertise itself is needed.

[30:51] It's a hard science problem and it's and then you stack on the AI and all the other technology goes into it and it's hard problems. And so you know I'm not saying you have to hire everyone from the space industry but you need to have a core group within your company that that understands it and can do it. Second part is the real business reality. space as an ecosystem is still a very tight community. Even after being in it for whatever now it's been almost 9 years, I still don't have anywhere near the pocketbook or the or the blackbook or the network that my co-founders do because they grew up in the industry. And so there's definitely those people that cut their teeth together in the Air Force, Space Force, NASA, whatever. And they they're all connected. I can pick up the phone and talk to a lot of people in the space industry, but I don't have the history shared with them. So, it's I don't I'm trying to think of how to describe it, but you think about think about someone trying to go into the railroad industry. Like, [laughter] you better know somebody that's already in the railroad industry if you're going to go try to build a railroad, right?

[31:55] Like, or build a train system. And so, it's it's it's like it's like that. It's a very um I don't know if insular is the right word, but it's it's a very tight community. And to to succeed there, you've got to have that space DNA. Just being a good entrepreneur with a creative vision isn't enough. Now, I say that Elon did it, but he also hired smart space people to do it and the right type of people to do it. And so, we kind of did the same thing at Slingshot, but my two but I was fortunate because my two co-founders were space people through and through. — yeah, that seems really important. — But, but I do think the the entrepreneur opportunities are there. just if someone has a vision for it, they first thing they should do is connect to universities, they should connect to someone from NASA, they should try to find that space DNA that they need to interact with and uh try to find the right partners to really launch and get a company going if if if someone has some creative idea. There's lots of there's lots of opportunities for creative ideas right now in space. — What are the what are the big schools that some because I think school is probably more available than a government or NASA easier to get into.

[32:58] What are the top few schools that are kind of working on these problems right now? I mean, a lot of the major schools and and you can you can research it, ask ChatJBT, but Arizona has a great program. Colorado's got some really great stuff. University of Texas has some good stuff. A lot of the California schools have good stuff going on. So, those are the areas that off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing some. So, forgive me anyone from a any professors in the space industry that I'm missing. — Every Riddle is going nuts right now, — I know. Yeah. Every Riddle. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, there's a lot of great schools with great space programs now. It's not and I wouldn't say that I wouldn't put any of significantly above the others to be honest. Like there's probably a top echelon of of schools and then and there are some that are doing mediocre stuff, but but the but there's a lot of great schools with aerospace programs that that focus on space and the problems in space and all that — Yeah. And researchers tend to be pretty easy to get a hold of if if you have a good idea or you want to be truly involved, you're committed, like it's pretty easy to get into that world to do your research. I think where I see entrepreneurs that get dismissed or where somebody comes in with halfbaked ideas and a and a lack of commitment. I think that's like — like being if you're not committed in space, that sounds pretty dangerous to — Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think some of this kind of borders between entrepreneurship and space, but like I my former co-founder of Art Media, Brian Krer, when he approached his his business of what did he want to do next, he looked at different technologies that were available and he and he would he would find stuff that was happening and do a lot of interviews and those type things. and his previous company, I'm drawing the a blank at the name of it, but they they basically create ultraviolet machines that you can roll into UV machines that you can roll into hospital rooms and they'll they'll seal off the windows and blast the room and kill all germs in it kind of thing. And uh he found that by talking to researchers that had a technology and then he commercialized it, right? He partnered with them and commercialized it. And so I'm I'm probably missing some details in there, but that type of story, I've seen that happen in space as well. And I think that again if someone if an entrepreneur wants to get involved in space and they have [clears throat] some general ideas, go track down which researchers are working on those problems, find out who's got good solutions, who's interesting, who you think you may be able to work with, like and then figure out what does it take to license this technology from the university and go for it, you know? Like it's that easy. Not really, but it's it's if only. All you got to do I hired a guy one time like all you need to do is hire an MBA or a consultant and then you raise a bunch of money and then you write a business plan and then you sell the company with your investment banker.

[35:37] I was like yeah — that's if everything is perfect and ideal. But but the reality is entrepreneurship is handtohand combat almost always. And you know, it's I call my friends and my adviserss. They probably expect to call at least once a quarter where I'm like, "Holy, [laughter] I need help with this. I've got this problem. I need your advice. What do you think?" Even at 50some, I'm I'll I'll tap into my network of adviserss and friends that know, you know, I've seen similar problems and look for those solutions. And I think that's back to your it's easy. It's not easy. It's hard, but it is very rewarding. And so, anyone thinking about getting into entrepreneurship, you should take the leap off the cliff. just think through how you're going to do it, plan it out, and get a lot of advice along the way. — I know we're getting long on time, but I one question about the race to space, if you will, — much like where there's a whole bunch of discussion about AI and who's ahead and who isn't ahead. If you were to roll the clock ahead 10 years, given the talent that we have and we may develop versus the talent they whoever they may be have and may develop, are you optimistic, pessimistic, or neutral in our ability to win the race or at least be be competitive in this in the space? It's — pun intended.

[36:55] — Yeah. No, it's a good question. I think that look I don't I think we'll win the race against Russia if if you just want to put names to it. I think look we've got US is is tremendously resilient. Yeah, we got all types of problems that we could all talk about whatever but like but in the end we're resilient. We respond well and we have still the largest and best entrepreneurial base in the world. And so I think if we can I've always joked that I want to write a book when I get done with slingshot about how the government and the and the commercial industry should work better together because there's no walls between China government and its commercial industry and there's no walls between Russia and its commercial industry. The government does what it wants in both cases. We don't have that luxury because and it's a good thing in America that we don't have that that issue but but it's very hard for commercial entities to work with the US government overall. I'm talking about categorically the spa space force tends to be able to easier air force some of the other more advanced parts of other armed services. But the US government's hard to work with for a commercial company. I used to I before I started Slingshot I used to tell entrepreneurs don't waste time trying to pursue government as a customer because it's just too distracting and hard for an early stage company. But now you look at what's happening in Ukraine and Iran and other places and how nations with very little in comparison to their adversaries are holding their own because they're innovating and they've got people creating drones that do all types of crazy stuff and advancing really fast towards true innovation. And so we need to enable that more and I think we will break down those barriers.

[38:33] I I hope that it's not a war that requires us to do that, but I think that that that that will come as we need it. On the on the moon thing, I think chi China is I wouldn't say ahead of us, but they're definitely putting almost equal pressure on us on space and all things space. They also have a lot going on in AI and quantum and they're and I would I don't know this industry well well but I've heard from several other entrepreneurs that they're ahead of us significantly in robotics which is going to be pretty critical for space and AI benefit to humankind. I I think we've got some some places we're ahead some places we're falling behind and we need to do better and I I don't think it's doom and gloom at all. I think we've we've as a country we've always stepped up to the challenge and I think we'll continue to do that as my optimistic self saying and so but it does require more continued entrepreneurs just going after it and I think it requires also the US government continuing to try to work more with industry. There's a lot of great people within the US government trying to work with industry more and more and it and we just need more of that. We need more support for that, more continued pushing of that. And I think both sides, both industry and America understanding how the government works. I mean, and when I say industry, I'm talking about small businesses, entrepreneurs, understanding how the government works and being better educated on that. And then the government being better educated on what actions do I take in a business dealing with an entrepreneur, small business, or medium business that will damage that business and how do I avoid that? So even if the government doesn't want to do business with you because you fail on a contract or whatever, how they pull the plug on that contract could sink or very negatively impact a business. And it almost happened to us when we were a very small company. We had a contract pulled. It's our first government contract and we we we were into it and then the funds got shifted somewhere else and we had to scramble and react to that. I mean, we if I would say that if we weren't we didn't have a great group of adviserss and I hadn't been through that type of thing before in the past, we may not have pulled through it. We may have that may have been the end of the business at that time and then all the stuff we built a slingshot wouldn't be here today. So it's just that kind of we got to find more collaboration opportunities and we got to keep pushing on that as a narrative both from the entrepreneurial side and from the government side and and we're seeing that I mean that's coming to a head with anthropic and with all the AI companies like that's going to drive that dialogue even further I think hopefully. So anyway don't know if that answer your question Anthony but hopefully that that covers it.

[41:09] — So much so much here. So well David thanks for being here. I got to tell you, space is the next wild west. I think we're going to all those kind of western space movies from the '7s, '8s. I just think that we're coming back around where we're going to see that that railroad panning for gold space race started decades ago and here we are. And fun to see someone, especially you who's not from space, come through, build a team, build all the right capabilities, and uh and make make a big go of it. So, congratulations on all your early success at Slingshot. I know there's a ton more to come uh from both Slingshot and from the rest of the industry. So excited to track that and uh get an update at some point in the — Thank you all for hosting me. I appreciate uh you letting the dumb guy in space come onto your podcast. — Fantastic. Thank Thank you so much. — Thank you guys. — Here at Tales of Abundance, we know that fitness is just as important as money or milestones. It's one of our five Fs for me. Taking care of my body while I build my life is one of the more time-consuming and difficult goals to chase along with a good night's sleep and exercise. You need the right balance of nutrients for good health. That's why we're partnering with AG1. It's a daily drinkable habit. Takes less than a minute. It's formulated with all the vitamins and minerals you need, including probiotics.

[42:27] Designed to support energy, digestion, and immune defense. And if you want to try it with our affiliate link, you'll receive a free AG1 sampler plus vitamins D and K2 with your welcome kit. That's when you first subscribe. That's a $72 value. So do it now. Go to take care of a lot of your needs first thing in the morning. All right, here we are. the abundance briefing after Slingshot Aerospace and uh Randy, you want to dive in here first with uh big math problems getting — Yeah, I mean this first one there's there's a new version of open AI, right? There's a new version of everything as fast as we can go. But it just solved a 90year-old $1 million math problem in 88 hours. So again, for 90 years, people have been trying to do this. It has to do with aerodynamics and the way air flows around airplane wings and a bunch of other stuff that I don't understand but it's called Navier Stokes and 10,000 bots worked on this for 88 hours and cracked it. I mean we're we're solving math. It's pretty cool.

[43:41] — So hang on a second because [clears throat] I I actually know a little bit about this. It's it's more about how uh liquids travel. But what's interesting here is it it didn't do any the bots didn't do anything unique. They didn't discover anything. What the bots did and this is this is um someone used the term leverage. The bots leveraged existing knowledge that had been accumulated over the 90 years or more by people that have been doing research papers and studies and making efforts to uh solve this problem individually. And what the bots did was go out to all of that research by those hundreds and hundreds of people that were working on it, pulled that information together, and then coalesed it around the solution. So the knowledge was out there, just no one had gotten to the final point. And the bots actually went out and leveraged the existing information. They didn't create anything They leverage the existing information to present the answer to the problem which I thought which you know that the way that the articles are written is you know the bots went out on on their own and they solved the problem that would been you know it's kind of scary almost science fictiony and it's really quite the opposite. It's very mechanical what they did. So I just thought that was you know the rest of the story as um a famous broadcaster used to say it was found that very interesting. Isn't that how humans often solve problems though, right? Is they take previous knowledge and they build to one or two things or they connect, you know, so often we connect things from three, four different areas and all of a sudden have a solution in a for something, right? I mean, it's it's how we solve problems.

[45:35] — But that's not the way the news presented it. The news presented it as it solved a problem that was 90 years — Yeah. In a vacuum, yes, but it wasn't in a vacuum. Um, yeah, it's it's a little more, as I said, mechanical. I — I guess that's where we differ is you still give the news credibility and I just assume everything they tell me is wrong, but yeah. Um, okay, [laughter] maybe move to the next topic. So, — I just proved it was wrong. So, — No, I I think I I think this is amazing, right? And this is this is abundance. And if they can solve this, they can solve how many other things? And it could be things in physics. It could be things with — more energy, more water, more whatever we need for, you know, we just got done talking about mining asteroids and all these different things there with David. And again, the AI can solve and put things together. But, you know, I think about this a lot of times even from say like the pyramids or all these things that we think we know, but we're just we're looking at pottery from thousands of years ago and then trying to put together a story and there's things from, you know, a ge somebody that is digging it up doesn't know the physics, they don't know the economics, they don't know the psychology. And if an AI can take all that information and put it — I think we'll find out better stories even from past, — right? So, I I think this is really — Okay. Well, next up, next up we have rescue drones as flying life preservers saving swimmers when lifeguards are gone. That was interesting, too.

[47:14] — Yeah. I mean, this is Anony's been talking about this is like, you know, Anthony thinks robots are worthless and he doesn't want one, but he does want them to be used to go into mines and save people and save people from fire and and I think that's cool. And I, you know, all these dangerous jobs, but here's one. And when we were talking about this, it occurred to me, we were in Mexico a few years ago and this kid was kind of drowning and the the there were some pretty big waves. It was right after a storm and I'm there and nobody's reacting. The people he's with like and I don't swim that well, right? This is where we needed you, John. You're you're the champion swimmer. Like I don't swim well enough and I'm like, well So I start swimming toward this kid and the whole time I'm swimming toward him, I'm thinking, I can barely swim in this on my own. How the hell am I going to help this kid when I get there? Now, thank to thank God there was a lifeguard that was also coming, but that kid almost drowned and the lifeguard got there right before me, which again, like I said, I don't know. But how cool would it have been if that could have just been all of a sudden a drone comes out, drops the kid, a life preserver, maybe pulls him in, but regardless, like, how many lives could that save?

[48:26] And I mean, this is one little I mean, in a way, almost an edge use case, but I I think this is really — I don't think I don't think it's an edge use case at all. You know, yes, I don't want Rosie the robot cleaning and doing my laundry, okay? I'll I'll I'll go on record of not wanting Rosie from the Jetsons, okay? But this this has got so many applications. I mean, the ocean is a pretty violent thing and it also has a tremendous expanse and you and if you think about it, you know, one lifeguard can cover how much space and how much time. So, uh, you know, someone that gets caught in a rip tide and is being pulled east, west, north, or south, you know, at a pretty big clip, having a drone that that can close the gap pretty quick. And um I just think this is a perfect use of AI, uh miniaturaturization, robots, intelligence. It's just a perfect marriage of all of those things together. Now, having grown up on the ocean, I'd like them to add shark killer to this thing where they [laughter] they uh they can maybe, you know, outfit that drone with a, you know, a little explosive or some sort of harpoon to take out a great white that might be um causing problems along the beach. But it's also can be um you know, something for surveillance. You know, there's so many applications, you know, surveillable that there is a shark in the in the in the neighborhood or uh warn a boat that's getting too close to shore, any number of things. So, I think this is this is great news if it's real. You know, I mean, this was reported by the news, Randy, so I don't know. This could be, you know, — you're right. It probably is a lie.

[50:12] That's a very good catch, Anthony. — Lifeguards are taught reach, throw, go, right? like reach first, throw second, go. And this this makes the throw miles long. I think it's amazing. You know, I was I was in in the ocean in high school as an excellent swimmer. I was with a former LA County lifeguard. We were body surfing. We got caught between sets. We were in deep trouble. LA lifeguard boat was out there watching us, but it couldn't get into us. Had there been a drone to drop us life preservers, I think we both would have taken it and we ended up okay, obviously, but scary moment and uh would have been a great moment for that. So that's uh — well there there was a young young kid uh he's out on in Alaska who was out on a on a fishing boat with two other people. The boat capsized. He somehow was able to climb on top of the boat and the capsized boat and survived for two days at sea before he was rescued. He was rescued by someone, you know, uh you know, a search and rescue plane and then they bring in the helicopters and the Coast Guard. had they had drone technology, they could have covered a lot more ground. Um, you know, we just talked to David about, you know, satellite imaging and things like that. And you start to think of what you what you could marry, you know, imaging, movement, drones, and so forth and and we are making the world a safer place.

[51:36] And that's the definition of abundance to me. — Yeah. I'm think I'm thinking about cruise ships, right? Once or twice a year, somebody falls off a cruise ship and dies because that cruise ship's so big, even if they know they fell off, they can't turn it around. They can't stop. By the time they stop it, get back to them, they never find the person. And every cruise ship being equipped with one of these, you know, tons of use cases. So, love — Love drones. All right, guys. Next is nuclear power going into space. And you know, there was a bet that was made that you put reactors in orbit. It was a $161 million bet. And I thought it'd be fun to talk about this. And we were talking before the show. It wasn't actually the nuclear reactor in space that got us. It was the $161 million bet. That was the thing that shocked me. Who wants to jump in on that one first? Well, it's first of all, it's a Department of Defense contract for 161 million, which is a rounding error for those guys. So, I'm I'm happy that they're making the investment. I want them to make the investment, but $161 million from the DoD is going to basically buy a research paper. So, I wouldn't get all excited about this in terms of, oh, we're about to have nuclear power in space, but at least we're studying it. That's the good news. A lot more capital is going to have to be thrown at it um before something like this happens.

[52:57] — Every everything has to have a place to start. And by the way, um there is a they also have a a series C of 470 million. This is not all the capital that's being thrown at it and who knows where it goes from there, but businesses have to start somewhere. This is part of the entrepreneurial journey. My bigger takeaway when we were doing this and Anthony, you had a stronger reaction than even now. You were like 161 million. What the hell is that? And I I think that's really I think there's something there in that the world has changed so much. It's not that long ago that if you would have heard 161 million, you would have been like, "Oh my god, 161 million." But in 2026, I'm not saying I don't have the same reaction you do. I'm just reacting to you having it going, "Oh, it's only 161 million. It's it's not billions. I mean the government being 40 trillion in debt has just desensitized us to how insane and how much — it's a little bit it's not so much desensitizing it it you know I was I guess you I've got the data center you know data centers in my mind and and the these companies are spending $30 billion to build a data center um out in next to the oil fields in Texas. You know what I mean? So you think about a Dennis data center that's going to generate its own power costing $30 billion and these guys have raised 161 million and $470 million. The scale of it just you know again I'm glad it's happening.

[54:33] Okay I and I hope that the this research paper and this company becomes wildly successful and can deliver power from space. Um I don't exactly know how nuclear power gets from space to earth. That's not my field of study, but it's just it just takes so much in the form of resources. What was it 2 and 1/2 years ago? Uh Microsoft negotiated the restarting of 3M Island, the nuclear facility. I don't know how much money they've spent, but they haven't generated a single, you know, uh connection to the grid yet. So, so what's going on there? How much what kind of resource are they having to plow into it to make that happen? Regulatory resources, you know, the um equipment resources, you know, [snorts] safety, you know, government regulation that they're going to have to go through, so on and so forth. It just takes so much — How much of that expense is because of all that red tape and that government crap that they don't have to deal with in space? I mean, a big reason they're building a lot of this stuff in space is just so they can It's cheaper to build some of this stuff in space than it is here and having to deal with all the red tape and the bureaucracy if you build — You say that, but but 80% of the electric grid is regulated.

[55:53] Okay. So, they can build whatever they want in space, but they've got to get they've got to go through regulation to attach to the grid. Very little of the the the grid is deregulated. So there's a again I love it and think it's great. You know it advance it, move it, make it happen. Go for it. God bless these geniuses that are doing it. All for it. It's just, you know. — All right, guys. Well, here's you guys. $161 million. So much abundance in your life that it's a drop in your bucket. That's my big take away from that's our abundance briefing today. If you got to this point, you must be liking something. So like it, subscribe it, tell your friends about it, share us out, download all the episodes, uh do all the stuff you need to do, but let's make sure that you out there and have an abundant day today. Thanks for your time, Anthony Randy. We'll talk to you next time.