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Will AI Kill Us—or Create the Greatest Abundance in Human History?

Episode 93 · 29 September 2026 · 56 min

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Show notes

AI Doomerism or AI Abundance? Will AI Kill Us?

AI doomerism is the idea that artificial intelligence could wipe us out, and in Episode 93 Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino ask who benefits from that fear. They compare today's warnings to Thomas Edison's campaign against AC current, follow the money behind efforts to slow AI down, and then make the case for AI abundance.

Why are the people building the most powerful technology in human history telling us it might kill us? In Episode 93, Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg, and Anthony Marino pull back the curtain on "AI Doomerism" — a strategy as old as Thomas Edison: manufacture fear to protect a business interest. Just as Edison campaigned against Westinghouse's AC current by warning of its lethality, today's AI giants lobby for regulations that act as a moat against open-source developers and agile startups.

We dive into the origin of the Effective Altruists, the $2B money trail behind efforts to block American data centers, and why slowing down in the West won't stop the global AI race. Then we pivot to the abundance case — how AI is already democratizing information for developing nations, enabling new materials, disease cures, and a multi-planetary future.

Regulatory Capture, Open Source AI and the Abundance Case

What you'll discover:

  • The "Edison Parallel" — fear-mongering as regulatory capture
  • The Effective Altruism money trail and $220B in blocked US infrastructure
  • Why open-source AI is already making Big Tech moats irrelevant
  • The Chinese Shipbuilding Mistake: 1,000 years of self-imposed poverty
  • Abundance Briefing: Starship Flight 14, Vietnam's rice revolution, and Nvidia's $150B buyback
  • What the hosts are actually using: harnesses, Grok bots, 400 AI agents 24/7

Timestamps

  • [00:00] The Edison Parallel: How Fear Became a Business Strategy
  • [01:21] Is AI Fear Legitimate? John's Manhattan Project Story
  • [02:33] The Effective Altruists: Where the Fear Campaign Started
  • [05:37] Are Dario & Anthropic Sincere or Hypocritical?
  • [06:11] China's Incentive to Slow Down US AI
  • [07:13] Following the Money: $2B to Kill American Data Centers
  • [08:18] Why Slowing Down in the US Won't Stop Global AI
  • [09:30] Open Source Is Already Undermining the Big Players
  • [10:37] The IPO Problem: Does Doom Talk Hurt Anthropic's Valuation?
  • [11:43] Building a Regulatory Moat: The Real Strategy
  • [13:25] What Happens If Regulatory Capture Succeeds?
  • [15:16] RBFA: Rile Up Big Anthony — AI Elites vs. The Real World
  • [19:50] The Chinese Shipbuilding Mistake: 1,000 Years of Poverty
  • [22:00] The Abundance Case: What If AI Actually Wins?
  • [27:21] From Water Systems to Indian Restaurants: AI Democratizes Everything
  • [28:35] The Dishwasher Moment: AI as the Next Industrial Revolution
  • [29:34] New Materials, Disease Cures, Multi-Planetary: Randy's Vision
  • [32:57] AI Assembles All of Human Knowledge Into One Place
  • [35:16] Practical Advice: What Should YOU Do Right Now?
  • [36:02] John's Takeaway: Circle of Influence vs. Circle of Concern
  • [37:52] Randy: Scarcity Mindset vs. Abundance Mindset
  • [39:56] Abundance Briefing: Starship Flight 14 — First Orbital Launch
  • [44:09] Vietnam Rice Revolution: 12% More Yield, 30% Less Input
  • [45:52] Nvidia's $150B Buyback: The Largest in History
  • [48:58] What Are the Hosts Actually Using? AI Tools Roundup
  • [49:44] John: Building a Custom AI Harness & Governance Layer
  • [51:19] Anthony: How AI Transformed His Consulting Business
  • [53:37] Randy: 350-400 AI Employees Running 24/7

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About the hosts

This is a hosts-only episode with no guest: Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino. In the last segment each of them walks through the AI tools and agents he actually uses.

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Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It comes from the episode recording and has speaker labels. It hasn't been proofread yet, and the time markers follow the raw recording, so they can run a minute or two off the published audio.

Randy Lorensen [00:00]: Travel back to New York City, year 1889. Headlines are screaming, Death by Wire. People are afraid to flip a light switch because they're convinced that an invisible current will kill them in their sleep. Doctors are warning of blindness, insanity, electrocution through doorknob. Then Thomas Edison weighs in. He publishes manifestos: Electricity Will Kill Civilization, Destroy Civilization. Specifically, his competitor's version of it, the Westinghouse AC current. Compared to his DC current. He even goes so far as to secretly fund a gentleman to create the electric chair so it'll be bad PR for Westinghouse and his AC current, his rival technology. He's not doing this to protect people. He's trying to destroy a competitor. He's trying to own the power grid. Does this sound familiar? Today, the most powerful people in AI write open letters. They warn of extinction of the product that they're developing. They call for a total pause. Yet they don't stop creating. They don't stop moving forward. They just go back to making it even better. So today we want to have an honest conversation. Is AI going to kill us all? Is it going to save humanity? Is the truth somewhere in the middle? John, let's start with the fear porn. What's real about the po the fear, or is any of it?

Dr. John Oberg [01:23]: You know, I think I think there's probably some legitimate fear where we just don't know what we don't know. Like there's something to that. And there's a lot to the fact that people want their competitors to slow down so they can keep up, especially in a super fast moving environment. And you know, you gave on on the one hand the Thomas Edison, which is destroy a competitor. You know, I I'll take us back to the Manhattan Project for a minute. My grandfather was a a flight surgeon in the Army Air Corps and he was in the air on the day that they detonated the first atomic bomb. And when he was in the air, the air traffic controller came in and said, You have to land immediately and you know, they said, We're going wherever they were headed, and they No, you have to land or you you could be shot down. And he put two and two together years later that they didn't know if they were gonna take the plane out of the sky when they dropped this bomb. And he was hundreds of miles away. They just didn't know. And so they weren't really trying to like threaten him they were gonna shoot you down. They were saying, like, we're not sure how far this thing's going. None of that was said. That was just, you know, th and if you watched Oppenheimer, which was, you know, fictionalized, but I think they didn't know how big th you know, the chain reaction was gonna be. So I think there's a part of it that's like, we don't understand what the future holds, and there's a part of it that's like, hey, I want my economics to work out better than the next guys.

Anthony Marino [02:41]: Let's let's talk a little bit more about you know where where this is coming from and and who's really behind it. And what's interesting to me is dating back to 2015, there's been a group of intellectuals, if you will, in New York and then subsequently s moved to San Francisco, a group called the Effective Altruist. And they Have been concerned about the end of humanity for since then. Not just the the there was definitely talk about AI at the time, but they were also worried about a comet hitting the earth or super volcanoes, volcanoes. And they, as a group, were trying to figure out, well, well, what do we do is if something happens? How do we survive? Now, these are ultra, ultra-rich people. And so I question their intent. From that standpoint, that they were so concerned about themselves that they spent time meeting in fancy homes in the hills of San Francisco, private beaches in the Bahamas. They were getting together to plan their survival. So roll the clock ahead now. What's the intent of these very rich, very influential people who within 24 hours? Of a junior engineer at Anthropic quitting, this column character, this young guy who didn't even have access to the deepest inner workings of Anthropic, had no followers on Twitter, had no followers anywhere, announces that there's a 10% chance or their their the end of humanity is imminent. And his message got carried and repurposed. To literally billions of people across the world. This was a planned event. You know, someone one of the podcasts call it a PSYOP. You know, this was planned. So here we are, and we're under a deluge of negative fear-mongering that has basically turned AI into an 80-20 issue against. You know, if you ask the average person on the street, Could we continue with superintelligence? The answer is no. No, it's gonna kill us, it's gonna take our jobs, it's gonna ruin the world, there's gonna be bioweapons, there's you know, there's gonna be this horrible situation. And then you have politicians who are using it to gin up their their popul their popul popularity to win an election. They're using it as a as a tool. And frankly, it's It's irrational, but it's working. So I don't know how we unwind this other than wait it out, which I think history will give us that, because there are many, many more examples of these things than than the one or two that John and Randy talked to you about. so that's that's where we are today. I think we're just gonna have to wait this out.

Randy Lorensen [05:59]: John, what I mean, some of these people, right, are they predicting 10 and 20% chance of extinction. I mean, the the worst culprit, in my opinion, is Dario and Anthropic and that entire group. And they're constantly talking about how it can kill us. And I have mixed feelings because part of me feels like they're sincere and they actually believe it. But then when I watch them not slow down and try to win this race, I have to think. They're hypocritical or they have a God complex, like, or that you know, they think, this is the thing and I'm the only person that can save it. I mean, what do you what do you think this is?

Dr. John Oberg [06:35]: I mean, I I don't know that I have an an idea about what the root cause is. What I can tell you certainly is that people have hidden motives. I can tell you that slowing down in one country doesn't slow down a different country. Like, you know, the the if I were if I were China, for example, right now and I wanted to gain an advantage in AI, I would pay untold billions of dollars to get the propaganda machine rolling in the US to slow the US down and cause chaos, because every step that the US slows down is a step that that China can either catch up or get ahead, depending on where. do you think they are. And so I think that that, you know, you have to look at that part of the environment as a part of it. I think there are people that truly believe some of that propaganda and therefore act on that propaganda. And and then I think there is a legitimate risk somewhere in there, probably, right? I I think, you know, it's like I tell people that things are never as good as they seem and they're never as bad as they seem. Like when we look kind of into the past and we actually can look at problems with real you know, retrospective clarity, we find that they never were as bad as people thought and they were never as good as people thought.

Randy Lorensen [07:41]: Yeah, it's I mean, Anthony talked about this group and the money and the the you know, coming from there, but there's another I I wish I could give the guy credit 'cause I can't remember his name, but I listened to an hour long interview with a guy that they had been following the money at this think tank or whatever. And and again you can but they w followed it back to a billionaire in China who was educated here, built a company here, became a billionaire, moved back to China, and he has sp Spent something like two or three billion dollars in America fighting against data centers, power plants, et cetera. And following the money in the money trail, they had determined that this group was responsible for in the range of, I think at the time, 220 billion that they'd identified in new power plants, chip centers that they had got closed down because of that propaganda, which is a pretty good return on investment, right? If If AI is gonna be as important or and powerful as we all think it's going to be, this is a big race, arguably bigger than the nuclear race that we went, you know, we went through in the last hundred years. So they're incentivized to stop us. Anthony?

Dr. John Oberg [08:51]: That's right.

Anthony Marino [08:51]: You yeah, the so from an abundance perspective, Slowing down or stopping here in the United States, or regulating in the United States, is not going to do anything to stop the worldwide efforts to keep things moving. So it's very confusing to me why this group and these people who stand to benefit tremendously from IPOs and so forth would want to take this action. It's counterintuitive. So There has to be there has to be something else at at play here. You know, we talked earlier offline about in the last month how many new models have been released across the globe, including here in the United States, the pace of innovation, the pace of releases. All while these guys are talking about slowing down, is in fact actually accelerating. So I just don't I just can't get there from here. There there there has to be an aspect to this that that we're that we're missing. I'm very confused. I'm very confused about their intent. But money has to be there somewhere.

Dr. John Oberg [10:10]: Well, there's a couple of things that I think are i it's probably worth noting, Anthony, that like a lot of people in the corporate part of the world are talking about like the models we have are enough for what we need right now. And faster speeding up doesn't mean that we're gonna be able to keep up and adopt and spend on that. And so, you know, there there's one school of thought that could be, hey, if we can slow down the frontier, we can slow down that investment and actually make a better financial model. For everyone. And so it may be that, you know, capitalism does drive a part of that. I think that's separate and distinct from the kind of national you know security types of conversations and the geopolitical advancements of technology. That's a separate thing. And so, you know, it wouldn't be unusual for militaries, for example, to develop a technology that then gets commercialized later. This is an interesting example where you know commercial technology is flowing into the military. And so I know I know it flows both ways, but I do think that you know the capital markets are starting to speak here and say, hey, you know, we can't keep taking down you know inordinate cost to move forward. Like we wanna we wanna adopt the things that were here six months or a year ago.

Randy Lorensen [11:26]: But what what's ironic, it's

Anthony Marino [11:27]: Yeah, that's a

Randy Lorensen [11:28]: the people that are screaming the loudest are the people that can actually stop it, right? Like if you're so worried that this is so powerful and it's gonna kill everybody, well, you're the very person that can say, okay, we're not developing anymore. But that's not what they're doing, right? There's an alignment problem. And Anthony's talking I mean, Anthony says he can't understand where it comes from, but John, you mentioned it earlier. Wha why are they doing it? Like why why are they doing this? What's what's their motivation?

Dr. John Oberg [11:56]: No follow the money, right?

Randy Lorensen [11:57]: I have some ideas. I'm curious what you think there.

Dr. John Oberg [11:59]: Yeah, I think I think I think it's you gotta follow the money, right, Randy? And so it could be based on a business model and profit. It could be based on getting a an advantage where they can catch up to a competitor. It could be, you know, raising the barriers for entry. Like when you look at Porter's five forces about the profitability of an industry, one of those five forces is the barriers to entry. And so you have AI creating this really low barrier to entry for all these technological things. It would only be prudent to try to build those defensible walls and defensible IP. Like that's just you know being a good steward of the investors' money that you've taken in.

Randy Lorensen [12:35]: Yeah. I mean, certainly they've been accused of this, right? They're trying to create a barrier, a moat, so that anthropic, ChatGPT, probably Gemini and Grok are the four people. And I should say it's the first two I mentioned, Chat GPT and Anthropic, that seem hell bent on doing this. The other two don't seem to be advocating for it, although a little bit out of Gemini. and they

Dr. John Oberg [13:00]: But arguably those two are behind too, right? So they wouldn't want to slow down. Argue are

Randy Lorensen [13:03]: Yeah. Well, I don't know. The new the new the new X or new Grok is pretty darn good. I don't I I again I wouldn't bet against Elon. Yeah, right. But I will

Dr. John Oberg [13:10]: Ar like I said ar arguab arguably arguably, right? Yeah, I wouldn't either.

Randy Lorensen [13:15]: tell you this. Over the weekend, I asked my Odin, my personal assistant, my Hermes bot, if there were new open source models we could use. I downloaded two new open source, well one new one and one of them just updated the version I had. I then asked it which Of these tasks, can that open source model do as well as Claude is doing? And by 90% is now running on an open source model on my machine. Almost everything said you're gonna notice no drop and you'll run it for free on your machine. These things we need the newest, latest frontier models. That's a real threat to a company that I mean they're trying to go public, right? And their revenues are exploding. And both these companies are talking about an IPO. And talking about that, John, you do a lot of work with angel investments, investments. I don't know how much you've dealt in the public markets, but any investment I ever have, there's a there is a section that talks about risks. Doesn't this screw up their IPO? Like isn't this cutting off their nose this spite spite their face? Like like isn't this a big risk that needs to be disclosed?

Anthony Marino [14:21]: Yeah, let's peel let's peel that onion back.

Dr. John Oberg [14:21]: I

Anthony Marino [14:23]: Use let's use John's the discussion about you know follow the money and yours about you know open source. Let's let's let's just play this out. Let's assume for a second that the four big ones get some sort of regulatory capture and you know they they have to slow down or they're dictated to slow down. the the way I see this playing out is they're Literally slitting their own throats because somewhere in Norway, somewhere in China, somewhere in Australia, somewhere wherever, someone is creating the exact same thing that these guys have. And it may be, to your point, Randy, 70 to 90 percent as good. And it's going to do the exact same thing. It's going to solve math problems. It's going to create new medicines. do we really want China to create the cancer cure? You know, how how can they use that? You know, do we do we really want that to be the case? Do we want to be dependent on them, not only for the actual materials that we need to make our medicines, which we are now, but now the technology to save our lives? That is not gonna that is not gonna stop other geniuses around the world from moving forward. So it it's it's just that that's when I say it's counterintuitive. They have to know Anthony Marino doesn't know something that they don't know. These open source models that are coming to the market, to John's point, are going to do those fundamental tasks that these corporations need, that to augment or replace entry-level workers, to do the legal work, to do the accounting, to do the customer service, all these, you know, heavy head count areas of, you know, it's it's not that it's not that difficult. To to create these things, as evidenced by the fact that Randy Lawrence is coding. I mean, my God, he's a poker player who's coding. That's absurd. To think that what's actually happening is is ridiculous. That Anthony Marino created a grok bot over the weekend to do his tea times. I mean, it's

Randy Lorensen [16:36]: Ha ha ha.

Anthony Marino [16:36]: this is insane. I mean, so genius somewhere in China is going to create a a medicine or an enzyme. or a protein or whatever there it is that they're going to create that's going to be revolutionary, that's going to improve biological aging and so forth. Whether anthropic and grok and chat and Gemini you know go on vacation for six months, which I can't believe that they're going to do that. So I don't know. I'm preaching, but I just wanted to kind of point that out.

Randy Lorensen [17:07]: John, we're going to circle back to the IPO question. But before we do that, I'm going to introduce a new segment that I just decided on. It's going be Rile Up Anthony. So before the podcast, okay. You were talking

Anthony Marino [17:15]: Yeah.

Dr. John Oberg [17:17]: I am pro I'm pro I'm pro that section.

Anthony Marino [17:21]: Yeah.

Randy Lorensen [17:21]: about Sam Bankman Freed. You were talking about all these people and the what do you call the effective altruism? And you were kind of riled up about it. And I told you to save it for the podcast. So here we go. Let's let's hear the riled up Anthony section of the podcast.

Dr. John Oberg [17:32]: Can g An Randy, I'm gonna name this so I can rile you both up. It's gonna be it's gonna be a a bunch of letters, right? So it's gonna be R B A. Ryle Big A. Time for R B A.

Randy Lorensen [17:41]: All right. Well we I

Anthony Marino [17:42]: Yeah, well whatever.

Randy Lorensen [17:44]: th I think it's our if you're gonna stu use your stupid acronym, it's gonna be R B F A. We'll just we'll we'll let people figure out what the F

Dr. John Oberg [17:49]: Ha ha ha ha.

Anthony Marino [17:50]: Yeah.

Randy Lorensen [17:50]: A is.

Anthony Marino [17:51]: Well what what has me riled

Dr. John Oberg [17:52]: Fun.

Anthony Marino [17:53]: up is, you know, the elitists who who always think that they're right, that they're the that they're that they're in the in the right, whether it's you know, a right wing politician who thinks he knows or she knows what's best for me, a left wing politician or in this case a a group of of elite. Very, very wealthy elites who have nothing to worry about in terms of where their next meal is coming from or how they're gonna, you know, get on a Delta flight to go see their grandmother at Thanksgiving. They don't have those kinds of problems. And they sit in their ivory towers and they just dictate to us. And it's it's insulting because they they don't have a a sense of the real world. They don't have a sense of what the average person is up against every single day. And they just sit there and say, well. Well, we must stop doing this while we fly to the Bahamas on our, you know, G tens or whatever the whatever the new aircraft is that they fly on. And it's really upsetting to me to to have to sit here and listen to them preach at us as if, you know, so many so many things have happened in history that are very similar to this. So I was listening to a podcast yesterday and they talked about in the I think it was the 1100s, one of the emperors of China decided that he was going to stop shipbuilding. He felt that that was evil. And in fact, about a hundred years later, in the during the Ming dynasty, they destroyed all the ships. Well, what happened? China fell into abject poverty, became an agrarian, completely agrarian society, while Western Europe Was exploring the world, bringing all the riches of the world back, and became the Western Europe. And it wasn't until the year 2000 that China China began its recovery from all that. During that time, 90 plus percent of Chinese were living in abject poverty. I mean, when I when I was there in 2001, the Average income of the non-elites in China in an agrarian society was somewhere around a hundred the average income was a hundred dollars a month, I think the number was. Now, of course, China has the largest middle class in the universe, but that's how long that mistake lasted. I mean, that's nearly a thousand years. So, and there's more, you know, Henry Ford, the great Henry Ford that we've always talked about, how wonderful he was, he completely missed. When General Motors started to produce automobiles that people liked better. And he just ignored it. He didn't, he didn't believe that the Model T and Model A and all his models were going to become obsolete. Well, they did. And then of course, you know, Ford had to retrench itself and and get back on its feet. So these are huge errors in judgment that people made that can be absolutely devastating to a society. And that's that's a crossroads I think we're at here. that this this is this is gonna be a terrible, terrible mistake if we slow down.

Randy Lorensen [21:15]: Yeah. By the way, that the opening story where I used Edison, one of the things I considered was Chinese shipbuilding. They had the biggest navy in the world. They had this huge advantage and then they cut their legs off. I also considered the printing press. I mean, when the printing press was invented, who was really against it was the church, right? The Catholic Church and the and again, it's probably great people, but it's power. They were used to having that prestige. They were the ones that knew the Bible. They were the ones that could do the word. And just giving that to the average person, a lot of these elites, it scares them. They wanna have power, they wanna have control, right? And they love nothing more. So some of these people just love to tell people what to do, it seems to me. And I don't

Anthony Marino [21:58]: Maybe that's it, maybe that's it, that these elites don't want the common man or woman to have this incredible power. in this I mean, you know, you've guys heard me say this is just a piece of technology, right? This is just part of the the the broad array of tools that are gonna be available to people to improve society. It's it it's a powerful tool, it may be the most powerful tool, but it's it is just one of. You still need people, you still need other things, you still need still need basic mathematics and science and research and innovate innovative minds thinking about how to use it, you know. So I don't think it's something that we want to slow down on for sure.

Dr. John Oberg [22:50]: Well I I think i in here the thing I would say is that, you know, this particular tool has a couple things. One, it's it's d it's directed by humans, so it can introduce bias and it can actually influence people in ways that a hammer cannot, or you know, it so it's gonna be a different type of influence than a car. You can look at how Europe was, you know, developed versus the US, but this tool has more bias introduced to it. And it's gonna require people to think more, not less. And it's not naturally gonna do that for everybody. And so it I the danger here is it does widen the gap. And I'm sensitive to that. And I think that it certainly runs the risk of widening the gap between the haves and the have nots.

Randy Lorensen [23:34]: Well, but who wins again, open source, these open source models are really good now. Okay, they they really are. And if you have open source, people can afford it. Now, do they have a computer? I've found out I need a new computer, I need I need more memory, right? And I'm buying a new computer because of it. Not everybody's gonna have resources to buy a really expensive computer, but the there's models now that can run on a smartphone. And most of the world at this point even in poor places have smartphones. So democratizing it is good for everybody and the whole world needs more power, more chips, more advancement. That just brings this and democratizes it to everybody, right? And now I'm not saying everybody is equal. The person that's running 10,000 agents benefits more than the person running one, but they both benefit. They're both they're both raising their standard of living, right? John, let's let's go back to the I I don't want to leave the IPO question unanswered. but I mean what what's your take on that? You're the most qualified person here. I mean, is isn't this a risk to them that this screws up their IPO?

Dr. John Oberg [24:46]: Yeah, look, I mean here's I d I I don't maybe the most qualified here, but not the most qualified. So yes, I think anything that you have as a fiduciary that is like you're trying to grow the, you know, capital value of your organization, you have to move it forward. And so you wanna be on the correct side of the regulation if you're trying to IPO and it becomes again a moat. And any of those motes then increase, you know, your your the value of your enterprise. And so And then I think on the flip side to that, you've got a different set of risks, which, you know, the the story that's not coming out, all these stories are really loud and being told. The story that I haven't heard much about is like the really interesting way that like anthropic is measuring its books, which don't I think comport to like what the SEC needs to have for them to go public. And there's all kinds of crazy formulations they're using for revenue and th th

Randy Lorensen [25:38]: Tell me more I don't know I don't know much about that. Tell me about that.

Dr. John Oberg [25:41]: Yeah, th some of the calculations for revenue are like, you know, they're doing it grossed up along with partner proceeds and not netting that out like most people do, and they're just not using the same standards that most people are using. And so it's gonna change the way that their reported revenue looks. Now, the the fun part about that from my perspective is that someone can dump all those numbers into Anthropic and have it read through it and hopefully give it a really good read on what they're investing in. So you know, and then you know, it y you see there's other things we'll talk about later.

Randy Lorensen [26:17]: Hmm. That's interesting to me because, you know, as you recall, I worked during the dot-com boom for a company that didn't go public because the books weren't in order. Like we were talking about having the biggest IPO in history. And frankly, if the books would have been in order, Facebook would not exist today. We would have been out years before them and had things they didn't develop for. I mean, we we were so far ahead. And because the books weren't in order, we couldn't go public, the bubble burst, and in that time that company went out. It took me years to figure out that's why we actually didn't go public. That's not what they told us at the time, but that's what it was, is it couldn't get past, you know, the regulators. I was talking about the disclosures though. I mean, it seems to me that in your disclosures that you now have to put there's a 10% chance or 20% chance that this ends humanity if that's what you're out writing letters and telling everybody.

Dr. John Oberg [27:07]: Y yeah, I d I mean I don't I don't know how they're gonna deal with that. I'm I'm very interested to see how they're gonna deal with that in all of the public filings, so

Randy Lorensen [27:17]: All right. We don't we don't I don't want to get bogged down.

Anthony Marino [27:17]: Well, I can tell you how they wanted to do it. Let me tell you how they wanted to deal with it. And I think they failed. I think, as I, as I kind of analyze on the fly, what they really want from this this scare tactic, if you will, was liability, removal of liability. That would protect them, right? So just like the social social media companies have the law on the books that they're not liable for something I say that could be harmful to somebody. they and I and as I'm trying to think through this, they wanted to have some limited liability where if something went wrong, if a bioweapon was made, that they wouldn't be held liable for such a thing. And they got shut down by Republicans, by Democrats, by business, by their peers. You know, so that that failed miserably. So if that was their motivation, now they're standing there, as Warren Buffett says, you can tell who's naked when the tide goes out. that's that's where we are right now. So as I think through this, that that's probably what they were up to. They failed. It's not gonna happen. not in not in the short term. And I and and I'll predict here that Anthropic does not go public this year.

Randy Lorensen [28:46]: Yeah, I I tend

Anthony Marino [28:46]: Because of it.

Randy Lorensen [28:47]: to I tend to agree with you. And a lot of this comes down to personal responsibility. I mean, my my big thing as I thought about it, Anthony, is if you're really worried about this, it's what I said earlier. Stop make it safe or slow down. Right? If you think it's going to kill people, that's the responsible thing to do. And you know, giving them an

Dr. John Oberg [29:04]: Yeah.

Randy Lorensen [29:04]: out, I think makes it more dangerous, obviously. So definitely, definitely part of it. So let's let's move to the abundance side here. That's the more fun part. What happens if it if it works, if it wins? Tell me tell me what are the things that you're excited about that if AI lives up to the promise, what does it do for the soci for society, the world, your family?

Anthony Marino [29:28]: I can tell you, I'll I'll start there. I think if you go to the the the simplest use case, you know, if if I'm in a developing nation and I'm trying to create and hook up a water or sewage system or an electrical grid, I can go on AI and ask the questions. What do I do here? I'm faced with you know 175 yards between Where the grid is and where I want to deliver the power. How do I do it? What materials do I need? Should I dig a trench? Should I not? Should I put it in the trees? What do I do? I'm in the middle of a new city and I need to find my way to an Indian restaurant. And I can type it into a thing on my hand, it'll get me to an Indian restaurant. I think at the base level, the entire universe is now connected and can get information that is highly complex. useful and just just plain fun to deal with. I can now find my Indian restaurant in, you know, St. Andrews, Scotland. It's simple. Everybody gets the benefit from this. This is information in the palm of your hand. And I just said absolutely fantastic. Take it from there, John.

Dr. John Oberg [30:49]: I think it's everybody gets democratized data when they have access to data, which is I think really, really great. I think it should drive costs down for lots of things. You know, I I I go back to I read somewhere once that the average household had two point four servants in industrialized countries where they were getting help with, you know, washing, cleaning those things and those numbers dropped dramatically when we had dishwashers, like automatic dishwashers that we have in houses today. And so now those are ubiquitous and s you know, microwave ovens. And so I think this is the next technology where we had the internet revolution, we've had the industrial revolution, like this is the next wave of the information age where people are gonna have more information. And you know, a lot of the mundane work gets done now by the machine, which means judgment and you know the human become even more important. So there are people that will look for ways to make that turn that into as little work as possible. But then there are other people that look to try to extend how much work they can get done and I think they'll see different outcomes.

Randy Lorensen [31:52]: Yeah, for me, Anthony talked about I'm coding. I don't know how to code. I, as we speak right now, have multiple agents writing code 24-7, 3-6. They haven't stopped in months on this one program. I mean, it's a pretty big, robust, complex program, but I've created multiple apps. Some of them have created in one minute without knowing how to code. And they work. And they work right. But more ex much more exciting than me coding is what if new materials are created, right? what if you know diseases are knocked out or life extension or who knows what we learn for health, wellness, longevity, the human body? you know, Elon Musk believes that us becoming a multiplanetary species is critical to human sur survival. Does it get us there faster? Does it get us mining the moon, mining asteroids, exploring the universe, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera? Right? I mean, does it give us technology to explore our own oceans? But, you know, some of the stuff. Back to creating new materials. If you think about, and I kind of went on a rant last week during the abundance briefing on this, but war throughout history is almost always something about scarcity. And maybe a great example of this is Africa. Africa is loaded with rare mur earths and diamonds and all like uranium. The best uranium in the world comes from Africa, right? And we have uranium in the US, but we don't tend to mine it as much because the pollution or whatever. So we want to go to Africa and we want to mine mine it there. Yet these countries are poor as hell. They have all the resources, but they get taken advantage of. And I don't even think I think Africa is mostly France. I mean France has its fingerprints all over all of these different African countries and and a lot of it's going to Europe, but America is certainly part of the problem. And that's horrible for those people in those countries. Again, there I don't think there's any place on the planet where fewer people have water. Well This technology not only can help those people get water and live a better life and have electricity and all of this different stuff, but what are the chances it creates something so we don't have either we can mine our own uranium in a in a clean way, so we don't have to go conquer these people and screw up their lives, or it comes up with some new way of doing it or a better way of doing it, and we don't need the uranium, right? And if we really have abundance and we have more of everything. That's what builds a society. Yes, people are going to get unbelievably rich. We haven't seen our last trillionaire. Great. I I hope we have tons more trillionaires. But it's going to bring the bottom up, the middle up, everybody's up. If we just get out of the way. I mean, I really maybe it's too Pollyanna to say it can end war, but my point is humans go to war because they want what somebody else has, right? Whether it's my ancestors, the Vikings that were out conquering people and raping and pillaging or It's in Africa taking their stuff or but again, wars have been fought over land, over religion. These are all human things, not AI things. It doesn't have the same motivation. Now, I think John, you said earlier, it's humans influence it. We have to train it properly. We could train it to want the land or the whatever, but that's not its natural motivation and where it's gonna go. So for me, really like this is a real shot at. absolute abundance and the I guess the Star Trek future, right? Not the dystopian thing that we see in sci fi. So I don't know what else? I mean, is there anything else bigger? Like things that

Anthony Marino [35:28]: Yeah. GPT solving that math problem, but it didn't solve the math problem. What it actually did was take all the learning that hundreds and hundreds of mathematicians had been writing papers about and trying to solve this thing, put took all that knowledge, put it all together, and put the put the puzzle together and showed The result. This is the answer that everyone here was working around and so on and so forth. The same thing happened this week. Anthropic announced they discovered a new protein. And they got great fanfare, and this protein, you know, can it can affect biological aging and so on and so forth. Well, what did it turn up? Turned out that half a dozen other scientists had already been working on it, and they were getting close, and they just needed to. You know, continue their studies and continue their trials or whatever they do in these in these labs, and then through just pulled all that information again and said, here it is. Hey guys. Well, what is that? That's like taking the entire universe of human species spread all across the universe and getting them all to talk at the same time and share their results instantly. There were you know, one one scientist was from Bulgaria, another one was from Southeast Asia, another one in the United States. wherever they were from, this technology allowed all of that knowledge to show up on a computer screen in Palo Alto, California, or wherever the hell they figured it out. It's absolutely amazing what this is doing. This is taking all of human intelligence and putting it in one place. How how would you not want to do that? How would you not want to just accelerate that? Yes, you have to have the guardrails on hacking and bioweapons and And all that. I'm not dismissing that as incredibly important. And these guys are smart enough to do it. Look at what they've created. The people that are creating this are the absolute geniuses. Brilliant people. They're thinking far beyond anything we've ever thought of before. And how would you ever want to slow this down? Just beyond, it's just beyond me. So yeah, I'm fired up.

Randy Lorensen [37:52]: I like it. I like fired up Anthony.

Anthony Marino [37:52]: You might remember I wasn't so fired up about this in the beginning.

Randy Lorensen [37:55]: Yeah.

Anthony Marino [37:56]: I was I was a skeptic, remember? I was a bit of a skeptic.

Randy Lorensen [37:58]: Yeah, you've come a long ways.

Anthony Marino [38:00]: Well, you know, I I you know, you s you s and I got new that's right. I built a I'm building a I'm building

Dr. John Oberg [38:02]: Andy's got new tea times, Randy. Let's be honest. Like if we're if we're if we're if we're really thinking

Anthony Marino [38:07]: a bar to do my tea times. That's the most important thing in the world. I don't and I don't still don't want

Dr. John Oberg [38:11]: There we go. And that and there we and that folks.

Anthony Marino [38:14]: a robot doing my laundry. I'll just tell you that. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see.

Dr. John Oberg [38:16]: Yet. Yet.

Randy Lorensen [38:17]: You will. You will. I can't wait till that day. I'm not very big on I told you so's, but I'm gonna have fun that day. I probably probably will make an exception for that one.

Anthony Marino [38:24]: Well, I don't think it can distinguish between whites and colors, so I'm not so sure. We'll see.

Randy Lorensen [38:30]: Have you tried feeding it an image, Anthony? It does quite a good job of that actually. All right, John. What people are listening, what what do they do with this?

Dr. John Oberg [38:41]: I think for me it's like th this is a tool that's gonna be ubiquitous for our future. And and so I think the time is now to kind of get up to speed with what that tool can do for your life, personally, professionally. And there'll be people who choose to invest in that in the same way that people chose to learn how to drive cars and maybe spent less time on horseback during that turn of events. There are people in marketing who decided to get into internet marketing and leave behind the yellow pages marketing that was, you know an important way in in newspaper marketing that was the way of the world for decades. And so now I think people can make a choice to learn and grow themselves or they can make a choice not to do that. But or they can not make a choice at all and the world will choose for them. But the world's gonna move forward. And so being you know, in deliberate about that choice I think is first and foremost very important. And then second, just being thoughtful about like all the things we hear, understanding that it's never as good as it seems, it's never as bad as it seems, and just try to think critically about what you let in to your brain. And and you know, Stephen Covey talked about the circle of influence and the circle of concern. I'm very focused on like what can I control and what should I stay aware of? And then what do I just not worry about because it's noise, not signal.

Randy Lorensen [39:56]: Anthony, what sage advice have you?

Anthony Marino [39:59]: You know, I think I think John nailed it. and I the only thing I would add is if if you think this

Dr. John Oberg [40:04]: We recorded that, right?

Anthony Marino [40:05]: is good yeah, record that. Put a put a stamp on that. the only thing I say if you think this is gonna slow down, if you think that year is not gonna be available to you, you're gonna be left behind. That's all I can tell you. You'll you will you will be left behind. This is a a magnificent technology. All technology, when used properly, is terrific and can influence and improve your life. So don't sit idly by is be my my advice.

Randy Lorensen [40:35]: Yeah, my my thoughts are one, you've got a choice, everybody listening, including the three of us, do you want to approach this with a scarcity mindset or an abundance mindset? Right. And my experience is if you approach this with an open mind and an abundance mindset, you will get better and better and better and better at it. And it has made me I have not worked this hard. In years, and I'm getting so much done. And I've come to the conclusion I need to hire a bunch of people. Everybody's worried about it, taking jobs, taking jobs. I'm at the very real place where I'm like, my God, I've got all these things, and I can't, I can't do this this many hours a day forever, right? And it's great, I'm excited and working on things, but it's causing me to actually need more humans to do some of the things because it's creating opportunity. And I think it's it we need to lean into that as a People, as a society, as a world. And the other thing that I just, man, as I as I talk to people. People just need to spend time. You know, I know John, you would say 10 minutes a day. I think, I think, I think it's irresponsible

Dr. John Oberg [41:48]: Mm.

Randy Lorensen [41:49]: to spend less than an hour a day on this right now if you're serious about building your career. You either, you either go the complete opposite and you lean in completely to personal touch and personal service, which I believe is gonna go up in need, or you lean into this. And it's look, I love that Anthony is using Grokbot to do a tea time. I don't care what it is, right? Like I I think that is awesome. Right? Because Anthony was Anthony has like you said, you went a little bit kicking and screaming early, and now this was uncomfortable for you. And you grow. Most people, look, most people our age are not opening their arms around this and figuring it out. So I would just encourage people to pick one and play with it, ask it questions, and just get better at it every single day. So anyway. All right, let's we're gonna we're gonna go to the break. Anthony's gonna tell us about AG one and we will come back with the abundance briefing. Welcome back. Anthony, it's Monday it's Monday morning. You watched Starf Starship

Dr. John Oberg [42:50]: Yeah.

Randy Lorensen [42:51]: Flight 14 this morning. Tell us about it.

Anthony Marino [42:55]: Man, I'll tell you what, you talk about a confluence of technologies all coming together to produce what was incredibly one of the most incredible visual experiences that I had with learning about the this new technology that exists that is going to really change the world. So so Starship is the biggest ship that SpaceX has ever produced. And it's I think it's 12 times larger in its payload capacity than the Falcon 9, which they've been sending up, you know, literally hundreds of times at this point. Anyway, this morning they fired this thing off and it and it it rattled South Texas like never before. I mean it was just an amazing visual thing to watch but For the first time, they put this ship into orbit, which was news to me. They had never, they had, they've they had done a bunch of test flights. they hadn't they'd never deployed any satellites and things like that, but they put this into low Earth orbit. The the rocket, the the booster was returned like two miles away from where it took off into the ocean, so they were able to recover that. The spaceship went into low Earth orbit and they had video, actual video of it releasing twenty-nine Starlink satellites one at a time. They were shooting them out like toast coming out of a toaster. It was exactly what that was what it looked like. And I thought about the end to end technology that would that took place. There was, you know. Good old fashioned physical rocketry. There was engineering in terms of building the components and the capability of that that piece of toast that got spit out. And I just can't imagine the the amount of intellect, the amount of AI

Dr. John Oberg [45:10]: Yeah.

Anthony Marino [45:11]: intelligence, the amount of trial and error that went in to creating this thing. And I would I implore you to spend 27 minutes looking up. Looking at it and just listening to the the analysts and the commentators. And the most exciting thing to me was there were about, I'd say, 750 to 1,000 employees gathered in a in a kind of an open room. And the excitement on their faces as each stage of this event took place was so, I don't know, it was just heartwarming. to see how excited this these employees were. Sure, and I know they've made a lot of money or they have a lot of, you know, paper money right now, but my goodness, what an accomplishment. Just absolutely it took my breath away. And that's not, as you know, easy to do. So that's my take.

Randy Lorensen [46:10]: All right. John, move us from space to Vietnam. Tell us about what's going on with with the rice and the regenerative rice farming over there.

Dr. John Oberg [46:19]: Yeah, th they've they've got some technology now that is increasing the yield of the rice by twelve percent while lowering water utilization twenty percent, lowering the amount of seed necessary, lower lowering the fertilization by thirty percent. Like all these things are happening with this rice and you know Obviously we treat diabetes at Prosina so I'm not fired up about rice as the most important crop in the world. But we are gonna need like a lot more food by the year twenty thirty and twenty fifty and these things are growing. So, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we've got some really exciting movements forward in crops. Now, I didn't get into like the GMO and what it does there and it Look, I I like that we're pushing things forward to try to do more with less. We're being useful.

Randy Lorensen [47:14]: Well it's r it's regenerative farming. I mean I I didn't read the whole article here. but isn't that a regenerative farming shouldn't have GMOs, should it? Or but maybe it's both.

Dr. John Oberg [47:25]: Yeah, I d I I don't know the science well enough from the article, but at the end of the day, we're we're looking to, you know, make sure that people have food, which is a great thing, and we're doing it in ways that are, you know, less fertilizer, less water, less seed necessary like these are good things.

Randy Lorensen [47:44]: All right.

Anthony Marino [47:44]: Yeah, that's the lead really. That the lead is that we we're doing this with less natural resources and and less

Dr. John Oberg [47:50]: That's right.

Anthony Marino [47:51]: with less fertilizer. Creating fertilizer is a dirty business. Let's just say that. So this is a this is this can't be anything but a good thing.

Randy Lorensen [48:01]: Alright, let's go to NVIDIA. They announced a hundred and fifty billion dollar stock buyback. Why is this interesting to you guys?

Anthony Marino [48:11]: Well, it's interesting because it's the largest stock buyback in history, done by one of the most revered and respected CEOs on the planet. it's create it it has the opportunity to create tremendous abundance across a lot of the technology landscape because it gives NVIDIA who to me has the vision, the right vision.

Dr. John Oberg [48:41]: Yeah.

Anthony Marino [48:42]: Of where to take technology. It gives them a war chest, a very inexpensive war chest. Buying companies with stock is the least expensive thing a company can do. So this gives them a war chest to go out and buy the pieces that NVIDIA needs and wants to advance their mission. So to me, it's buy NVIDIA stock. I'm not an analyst and I'm not giving advice, but I'm telling you what I'm doing. this gives him a lot of capital, a lot of a lot of leeway, and it tells us that he thinks his stock is undervalued. You only do this when you think your stock is undervalued. So he's sending a message to the street, hey, if you're not gonna buy it, I will. And so here you have it.

Randy Lorensen [49:30]: John?

Dr. John Oberg [49:30]: Yeah, I read a book I read a book called The Outsiders, which is not not the one about, you know, Pony Boy, but there's a book about these CEOs that are kind of the most measurably Kind of A players in the CEO suite for publicly traded companies. And it was interesting that like more than half of them were great CEOs and provided return through economic and financial engineering. And that financial engineering, in a lot of cases, was a stock buyback plan as a part of their financial engineering and how to create value for their shareholders. And so I would say that if you're interested in this type of behavior, some of the names in the book you would know as CEOs, some of the names in the book you might not know. as CEOs and so I think it's a great set of case studies about financial engineering. And I heard this, that was the first thing that came to mind is a little bit of financial engineering to, you know, create better return for their shareholders and I think it seems smart.

Randy Lorensen [50:31]: Yeah, I by the way, Jensen, we talked about how anthropic and chat GPT are doomerism. If you listen to Jensen at NVIDIA, he's the exact opposite. He is all about abundance. He is the guy fighting the other side. So we should probably give him his flowers. And I, by the way, this one's a little hard for me because I am not a Zuckerberg fan. And I gotta tell you, Zuck has been Incredible. I mean Jensen and Zuck have been as good on this as anything and and so I I gotta give him his flowers as well. They have been going and talking about abundance, they've been talking about personal responsibility, and I think they're I think they're on the right side of this. So I I want to mention that.

Dr. John Oberg [51:15]: I and look, Facebook is doing some things with Muse right now that are all about goal setting and long term behavior change and things I love to see. And so if you're you know, if you work at Facebook and you're listening and you want to talk about healthcare, like reach out. I wanna talk. Like some of the stuff I saw in Muse when I was looking at over the weekend, it was the most hopeful set of things that I've seen without having looked deeply into it. On the surface, it was the most hopeful thing that I've seen from a social media platform recently.

Randy Lorensen [51:41]: So let's talk about that quickly.

Anthony Marino [51:42]: Okay.

Randy Lorensen [51:43]: What are you what are you guys using? What are you finding helpful in AI that people might want to try out? John, you just mentioned you mentioned Muse, I'll come to you in a minute, Anthony. You already mentioned Grokbot, but what are the thing I mean, the all these new models that Anthony referenced during the main episode that are coming out, w what are you using? What do you think is helpful?

Dr. John Oberg [52:02]: Yeah, I think for me the most important thing I'm doing right now is building a super lightweight harness on top of any model that I want to plug into the back of it so that I can actually look at a few things. One, I wanna be able to monitor the c Ye yeah,

Randy Lorensen [52:11]: Hold hold on, hold on. Tell people what a harness is. I don't know that everybody knows.

Dr. John Oberg [52:14]: s so I'm I'm creating like essentially a custom web app web applic or desktop application. That allows me to to move it out to any model. So I can go into Anthropic or OpenAI or a Grok or Muse. It can go wherever it needs to go. And it's going to have a few things that I can pay attention to, which is the cost of my processing that I'm paying for. And then it can also do some governance to make sure that there's like, you know, the right I have I have to work in a HIPAA controlled environment. So I want to make sure that we, you know, maintain all the privacy controls we need to. So there's a thin governance layer for me personally and then robust governance layers for the companies that I work with. And I'm building it in kind of a white labeled model so that I can use it inside our medical practice. We I can use it for the consulting clients I work with if they want to have it. But it's it's really a way of bringing the whole workspace into a singular kind of view so that people can get organized around how AI is working so they don't kind of spin out into seventy two different subscriptions and, you know, infinite cost. And it'll have like a little org chart of your agents in behind it. And so that th that's the work that I'm doing to kind of get organized around this very fast moving type of technology is getting it all to work together. Otherwise I think there's the risk of creating a lot of noise where the agents are working against each other in a way that's non productive.

Randy Lorensen [53:36]: Okay. Anthony?

Anthony Marino [53:39]: So, you know, I have a consulting business where I consult for companies to help them improve their marketing. And, you know, the there's a and there's an old s old saying, you know, data is a lot of information, but how do you take data and turn it into knowledge? And so that's what every that's what every consultant does is they take a bunch of data, they analyze it, creates knowledge. What AI has enabled me to do is to not only do The data collection, the creation of knowledge. It's given me tools that let me execute against that knowledge. There's automated execution. It tells me exactly what I should do with that, where I should spend more money, where I should stop spending money. What that enables me to do, because it does all that work for me, I'm now looking at expanding my client base. and taking on more clients and I don't think there's going to be much more work other than the initial sales process. So I'm I'm looking now at different industries, or I should say adjacent industries to the the industry that I'm working in. because it's all applicable to anyone doing any kind of direct to consumer, direct to business. it really is open that up. The so that that's and I use Grok and and chat for that. But this Muse and that I I was playing with it over the weekend. I think they just cut everyone off at the pass. This is a consumer-oriented product that can find you flights, or get you a table at a restaurant. Everyday things that you do, you just tell it, you know, tell me your, you know, give me get find some good Italian restaurants for the 17th of October in in Austin, Texas. It'll give you a list. Do you want to use open table? Do you want to use Resi? Give me your login information. I'll take care of it for you. I mean, it I'm just scratching the surface of it. I'm sure there's a lot more here. But you know, Grockbot and Muse both will schedule my tea times. So there you have it. I mean, it's it's it's real-world application for ordinary people like myself, non-engineers. I think it's just fantastic.

Randy Lorensen [56:03]: Yeah, I'm I'm using it for so much now, right? And I think I started a lot like other people. I I started using it as a search engine. And it grew from there. And pretty soon I was writing code. And, you know, now I have built a harness. I've got a couple of different harnesses that John, you know, I didn't even know what that term meant. Part of the reason I asked you, John, is I didn't know what that meant probably a month ago. Now I

Dr. John Oberg [56:25]: Yeah.

Randy Lorensen [56:26]: have a couple of them running, right? and definitely like my Hermes bot is part of that that's running and does that thing. I've got 350,400, I call them employees that Hermes is managing. I got Grokbot now has about a dozen things doing different things, right? I set up multiple workflows that were me doing them. It could be something as simple as posting these episodes on social media. I've now got Grokbot doing that for me, right? And it wasn't very hard to do it before, but now it posts it. It posts other things on social media. it's doing outreach, some things I haven't told you. I by the it's it's doing about five different things for the podcast that I set up this weekend that I I did I I'll tell you guys later. so it's that. It's you know, when Anthony says I didn't know how to code, I now have apps running on my machine that I made. I've got three that are working in PowerShell. By the way, I didn't know what PowerShell was three, four months ago either. And these things work 247 around the clock. coding. And writing code. I've got another one that's running in Claude browser that literally is just running around debugging my website and and clicking everywhere and all of the what happens if I hit the back button and the undo button or I change this or I do this, and it's finding bugs, reporting bugs that then the other things are working on. Right? I mean, this thing is self-healing, self-running, all from a guy that I'm just gonna tell you, I still don't have a clue how to code. I just tell it what I want and it does it. So For me, I use, I don't even know how many different things I use, but I'm using Claude a lot Claude a lot. I'm pretty impressed with the newest version of like Opus 5.5 or 5.6 or whatever it's called in the new Astra. I need to start playing with either Muse or Instinct. I've had people tell me Instinct is better than Muse. so I just again pick one, whatever sounds fun. I would recommend for a lot of people, starting with Grokbot is the easiest. I think it's easier than everything else, in my opinion. So anyway, I hope people just take something and play with it. But if you're still here, you love us, download, subscribe, tell your friends, tell the algorithm. it really does help out the show. And until next week, just go out and spread a little abundance on the world.