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AI: Abundance, Apocalypse, or Assistant? Navigating the Future with The BroBots

Episode 63 · 25 February 2026 · 1 hr 3 min

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AI Abundance, Apocalypse or Assistant? Navigating the Future with The BroBots

AI abundance, AI apocalypse, or just a very good assistant? Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino are joined by Jeremy Grater and Jason Haworth of the BroBots podcast. One is cautiously hopeful and one is far more worried, and together they cover recursive AI, blind spots, regulation and the everyday ways AI already helps.

In this episode of Tales of Abundance, Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg, and Anthony Marino dive into the rapidly accelerating world of recursive AI and its impact on the Five F’s of Abundance. Joined by Jason Haworth and Jeremy Grater from the BroBots podcast, the team explores whether artificial intelligence is the ultimate tool for human expansion or a "Darwinian sorting hat" leading us toward a dystopian future. From solving 40-year-old physics mysteries in hours to organizing a chaotic pantry for a family dinner, this conversation balances the staggering technical progress of AI with the essential need for human empathy and adaptability.

The discussion tackles the "shortening of the field" in business, the dangers of AI-driven confirmation bias (the Dunning-Kruger effect), and the reality of a world where AI models are now building their own successors. Whether you are looking to reclaim hours of your day through automation or trying to understand the ethical guardrails (or lack thereof) in current tech development, this episode offers a grounded, nuanced, and occasionally witty look at how to remain the "pilot of your meat skeleton" in an automated age.

Recursive AI, Is AI a Bubble, and the Dunning-Kruger Effect

What you'll discover:

  • Recursive AI and robots that learn from each other, and why leaders should think in weekly chunks
  • $2 billion a day on AI: is AI a bubble or a new railroad era?
  • AI as a partner vs. "AI slop", and using AI to confront your own blind spots
  • Why the Dunning-Kruger effect matters when people trust chatbots over experts
  • Utopia or Skynet: regulation, guardrails and the financial motives of tech giants
  • Practical magic: how AI organized a messy pantry and saved a family dinner

Timestamps

  • [00:00] The state of the show: Anthony in the Bahamas, John in Colorado, and a preview of the BroBots
  • [01:19] Abundance Briefing: recursive AI is live, and robots that learn from each other
  • [04:23] AI corrects a long-standing particle-physics assumption
  • [06:45] Shortening the field: why leaders should think in daily or weekly chunks
  • [07:39] $2 billion a day on AI: bubble, or a new railroad era?
  • [10:21] Break: AG1
  • [11:15] Meet the BroBots: Jeremy Grater and Jason Haworth on the "fast-moving train" of tech
  • [14:15] AI as a partner vs. "AI slop": mental health and content creation
  • [16:38] Confronting blind spots: using AI to challenge your own biases
  • [21:19] Mental-health advice at 2 a.m. and the Dunning-Kruger risk of trusting AI over experts
  • [26:45] "Meat skeleton pilots": get a second opinion from a human
  • [35:25] Moltbook, hallucinations and "the dumbest smart person on the planet"
  • [37:15] Utopia or Skynet? Regulation and the financial motives of tech giants
  • [42:40] How the hosts and guests use AI day to day: email, show notes and personas
  • [47:19] Practical magic: AI organizes a messy pantry and saves a family dinner
  • [50:54] Jason on federal AI regulation and the "no guardrails" worry
  • [54:15] The final verdict: human adaptability as a source of hope
  • [1:02:44] Where to find the BroBots

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About The BroBots

Jeremy Grater and Jason Haworth host the BroBots podcast, which covers technology, AI and wellness. On this episode Jeremy brings the more hopeful view and Jason the more apocalyptic one.

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Related episodes

Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect some spelling errors in names and terms.

[00:14] here solo today. Uh, Anthony and John are living the abundant life. John is skiing in Colorado and Anthony is on the beach in the Bahamas. Uh, both sound great. better, you know, better than being stuck here in the cold. But, uh, I I would rather have Anony's trip and be spending the beach in the Bahamas. So, anyway, uh, today, uh, we have an episode we actually recorded last week, so Anthony and John will be you'll you'll hear them on that. But the robots, which is a great podcast, uh, Jason and Jeremy are on, and we're going to talk about AI. In fact, I think you're going to find that's going to be the theme of the day. Uh, and they have different outlooks. What's really interesting about these two gentlemen, the robots, is they both find it indispensable. They use it nonstop and they have different outlooks about the dystopian part. Uh I think they both have concerns, but I think you'll notice Jeremy is a little more uh you know, thinks things will be okay, but has concerns where Jason has a little bit more of an apocalyptic feel to it. So I think it's good to explore different in different different uh opinions and directions there. But let's jump into our abundance briefing and the first is recursive AI is live. And what does that mean? That means that AI models are actually building the newest models. uh recently chat GPT put out their newest coding model and Sam Alman the CEO said that a previous version of chat GPT had done most of the work developing its new version uh this is really important and why is this important if we look at the history of AI we started out and let's go back to chess a lot of people are familiar with that and big blue and going and and going after and the world's chess leader I forget forget the gentleman's name But they started out with humans trying to teach it how to play chess and giving it what they thought were best practices. And it was good. It was better than most humans, but it wasn't at a worldclass level yet.

[02:15] They then started feeding it tons and tons, I don't know, thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of games. And it got better yet. In fact, at that point, it got to where it was world class level. But when the real jump came where humans could no longer compete with it is when they just stopped giving it human stuff, human information, human games and had it play itself and it just played millions of games and in something like a couple of hours it was way better than any version had been previously because it taught itself. Um then they went to go which I don't know the game go but from everybody what I understand it's far more complex than chess. there's something like more possible moves than there are sands on the earth. And people said, well, AI, it won chess cuz it's a limited, you know, limited variables, but it will never be able to do go. Well, it very quickly did it. And the same thing once it started playing itself, it was very very quickly better than the best human players in the world. Uh, and they did the same thing with poker, Starcraft, other games. Uh, you know, I've also heard Elon Musk recently saying that they are building a huge facility to put their Optimus 3 robots in and they're going to put thousands of these robots in there and just let them roam free for however long it takes to learn how to do all the different tasks and they will be learning from each other, not from the humans. They're just going to put them in there knowing nothing. And so this is already happening with robots. Um, the abundance angle on this the this means the rate of progress that's already mindblowing and hard to keep up with and a little overwhelming frankly even for me that it loves this stuff. It's just going to get faster, right? Like AI is the dumbest it will ever be today. No matter if it's, you know, twice as smart as it was 6 months ago, it will be smarter 6 months from now and a month from now. So what does this mean? Solving math, solving physics, solving science. I have a hard time even getting my head around that.

[04:23] But there's a just recently there's a an a physics assumption and I would love to explain this to you. You guys can can Google it or ask AI about it uh to get more but it talks about gluons and things that I'm pretty good at physics and I didn't even know some of the terms in there and what it's talking about. But for 40 years, the the the short story is we have assumed that these particles floating around never run into each other. Well, AI working with Cambridge University and Harvard and it was Chat GPT specifically in half of a day has proven this to be completely wrong. Well, what was the problem? The problem is humans only have so much time. And humans, we did the tests. We tested on two particles, three up to six. And once we got to six particles, we just we we could do the math. And it the math was getting more and more and more and more complex. And we just stopped at six particles. Well, it turns out that, you know, things have thousands, millions, billions of particles, and this just isn't true. And the math got too complex for humans, or humans got lazy, you could say, didn't want to run it all the way through, or some combination thereof. AI was able to solve this problem and an assumption that we've had for 40 years has been proven completely wrong. Well, how many more assumptions do we have in science, right? I mean, you guys have probably heard me say this before, but if you go back through all of human history, 99.9% of science has been proven wrong. And the whole point of science is that you have a you have an hypothesis, you have a theory, you do a test, and then you're supposed to put it out there for other people to prove the test wrong. But there's something like 60% of scientific papers and things that get published, nobody ever does a test to try and prove them wrong because there's again, humans have limited time. So now if AI goes through and starts actually proving all these things really we have huge huge jumps forward for humanity at that point. And uh you know we talk about having data centers in space and mining the moon and mining asteroids and all these different things. All of that becomes easier as we solve more and more math more and more science. Uh you know if you run a business how does this impact your business? uh you know I've come to the conclusion I like to think 10 20 30 years out what do things look like and I've just come to the conclusion I can't do that I almost have to think um in daily or weekly chunks um if Dr. John was here, he would call it shortening the field. And I think that's a I think that's something I'm working on right now is shortening the field so that I can focus on what do I know today because I don't know what AI and technology it's it's more than more than AI is going to do a month from now. So, I think that's a a practical takeaway for anybody that's running a business, going to school, looking for a career, is we we're going to have to be more adaptable and uh and just look at shorter time frames.

[07:39] Along these lines, we are currently spending $2 billion a day building out AI. Two billion a day. We had an episode a month or two ago where we debated was AI a bubble? And this is exactly why. There's, you know, 2 billion a day is an insane amount of investment. And by the way, that's mostly in data centers. Uh that's why there's a chip shortage. Nobody can get enough chips right now. We have a power shortage. Power power rates are starting to go up. But this buildout is coming. And this is history has done this over and over and over. A couple of examples. One of the best ones are the railroads, right? And when the railroad was invented and especi worldwide, but it was really focused the US and Europe started building out railroads and there were tons of competitors all over the place. Everybody trying to lay track, get routes going. Well, most of them failed. The vast majority of them didn't make it. But that's okay because if one failed, that that capital didn't go to waste. The track was still laid. the engines were still purchased and the stations and the bigger more successful railroads were able to take over those and then still speed up the progress.

[08:55] And while it might create a short-term bubble, uh we still have railroads today. Now, we've had new technology and you know, they're less important than they were 100 years ago, certainly, but that happened with railroads. It happened with the internet. If we look back, I mean, the original buildout of the internet, it got overbuilt. there was a bubble it popped and but all of those things happened that allowed I mean imagine the world today without that right so I think the same thing is happening with AI buildout and two billion a day is a is a staggering amount but it's going faster by the way it's it's it's like twice as fast as it was being built out a year from now and the rate is exce I mean I it can't be that long until we're spending three and four billion a day and this is not just a US thing. This is happening all over the world. Uh you know, US and China get the headlines, but you know, the Middle East is doing is building data centers like crazy. Uh anybody that has energy. Um so, you know, we'll see. This will should open up uh this should open up a lot of opportunity into the future. So, listeners, um you know, this is going to be an AI heavy episode. We're going to go to break. When we get back, uh, we will be back with the Brobots, Jason and Jeremy, uh, and John and Anthony, since we recorded this last week. You'll have the pleasure of hearing them as well.

[10:19] We'll talk to you after the break. — There are tales of abundance. We know that fitness is just as important as money or milestones. It's one of our five Fs. For lots of us, taking care of my body while I build my life is one of the more timeconsuming and difficult goals to chase. That's why we're partnering with AG1. It's a daily drinkable habit, less than a minute, that's formulated with 75 plus vitamins and nutrients and designed to support energy, digestion, and immune defense. It even has a few grams of protein uh that we're all chasing these days. And if you want to try it with our affiliate link, you'll also receive a free AG1 flavor sampler plus vitamin D3 plus K2 with your welcome kit when you first subscribe. $72 value. Go to shop.dream 3 we are here still, myself, Dr. John Oberg, Randy Lawrence, and Anthony. We're here with Jeremy and Jason, the the robots. I mean, is that it can't be six or eight months ago we got together to talk about things on your podcast and now we get to come full circle and we get to put you in the hot seat and ask you all things AI like where the world is headed. like this is there's so much amazing week by week, day by day, hour by hour to try to keep up with it. Let's just start there. How do you keep up with everything that's happening in the world of AI and then I want to dive much deeper into uh you know what people should be paying attention to.

[11:50] — I guess what I would say is we don't right I mean it's impossible. It is it is a fastmoving train and we are on slowmoving scooters trying to keep up with it. Uh it's nearly impossible. So, we sort of, you know, as as we're experimenting with tools, trying things out, uh, reading the different headlines, the best and worst case scenarios of of what are happening with these tools, we pick the things that look the most interesting to us and and talk about them. Uh, maybe jumping ahead a little bit here, but, you know, often we find ourselves in a in a position where at the end of the call or the end of the recording, we're not in a very hopeful place because there's a lot of things to be really scared about. And so I think the the role that we're trying to play with our show with with robots is to try to be a companion with that person that has the same fears and concerns as us who is also super excited at all the hours they've gotten back from, you know, the the emails they don't have to send anymore, the the summaries of the, you know, texts that they don't have time to read. It's it's a massive amazing incredible tool that can bring so much benefit to our lives, but we also see uh the big cliff that we're driving toward with this thing. And so it's it's scary to uh to think about where we're going, but that's it.

[12:54] You can't keep up. It's it moves too — I just put this together for the very first time in my life. I used to work with kitchen knives professionally quite a bit. And like the sharper the knife, the safer it was, right? Because a dull knife used so much pressure. But like sharp knives, you could be really scared of what you could do with a knife, but a sharp knife, you can also get a lot of really quality work done with it. And so, uh, shout out to my friends at Cutco who did not advertise on this show, but, uh, may may get them to after the fact. Well, what what's one of the ways that that AI is, you know, taking autonomy from people in places that people might not be realizing that they should be careful of? And I'm going to turn this to a story. We're going to try and get this focus on hope in a minute here, but like where do you think AI is taking over in ways that people may not recognize it that we should at the very least be aware? Jeremy, you want to take a shot at it while he's coming? take a shot at uh I mean so so where where AI is taking over maybe where it shouldn't I think uh you know there's a lot of concern about people using it particularly when it comes to like content creation right like a lot of people are jumping into it and saying hey write my blog post and it writes a generic boring piece of garbage AI slot that gets put out there — but when you think of it more as a as a partner because I I am no writer that is not one of my strong suits I would write a lab all day long — but I can have an interesting you know thread an interesting conversation with these tools and get to something that I think is interesting, worth sharing, and it can create what I would otherwise not have the patience, ability or desire to write. So, I think it can be an amazing tool to help people that have ideas and have worldviews that would otherwise be silenced. Uh, but because of this, they can share, they can even just speak to any one of these tools and say, "Here's what I'm thinking. Help me land on something that's going to be helpful for people." Really narrow down and drill down on on on an interesting point and create put out content that can really be beneficial to people's lives. Uh there's also concerning spaces where, you know, we see more and more people are using it for mental health. That is a terrifying idea, but it's also incredibly useful, right? Like for that person at 2 in the morning who's in crisis, who feels alone, feels isolated, doesn't know how to just calm the crazy thoughts in their head. It's a great sort of uh interactive journal that can help you at least sort through it and and come up with an action plan so that when you do get a chance to talk to your therapist, you can use that time more effectively. But, you know, we see over and over again people that are using it and being given really bad advice that ends up, you know, in some in some cases deadly. So, there are lots there's again there's there's two sides to this where there's a lot of ways that I think it's going to really help people — uh get to a better place with their mental health and put them in a position to be able to share their ideas.

[15:27] — But there's another side to that coin as — Yeah. As a mental health guy, I got to say 988. If you're in crisis, call the hotline. Get a real person on the phone immediately. Don't call 911 if you can't get a hold of 988, but get immediate help like for sure. And I also take clinical handbooks that I use and I put them into agents to test them and see how they work and work with the agent and see what kind of answers they're getting. And there's some pretty impressive stuff that's happening when AI is given the right guard rails. Is there now I'm also super sensitive to the fact that I want to give it the right backing data to kind of get me going in the right direction. Are there places that AI is like we should at least pay attention to where it might be inserting some bias instead of just straight facts? — I mean, absolutely. I think any any technology that we're using, you talk about social media, you talk about AI, uh it's definitely whatever you feed it, it's going to feed back to you that same content. It is designed to keep you engaged. It wants to keep you online, plugged in, and using that tool. So, no matter how crazy and ridiculous your idea might be, it's going to tell you, "Hey, champ, that's really amazing.

[16:31] let's let's dive deeper, right? And all of a sudden, you're digging deep on these con on these concepts that are completely nuts. So, yes, there's there's tons of bias that you should be afraid of and and you should actually prompt it to challenge you like tell it I want you to come at me with from the other side of the of the aisle here. Tell me why I'm wrong. Explain the what I'm missing. Right? Uh this was an interesting experiment we did on our on ourselves where we basically uh we found this prompt that uh basically asked AI hey here based on everything you know about me tell me about my blind spots where where could I be excelling more in my life — and it was like a hit over the head of just like wow that nailed it that's that is 100% where I'm falling short and you from there can start to build out you know give me a step-by-step plan on how to start filling those gaps and doing a better job. So, if you prompt it properly, it can be a really great tool to help you uh, you know, challenge your ideas, challenge your beliefs, and and start to see things in it from a new — When we were Oh, sorry about that, Jason. Jump in there. — Yeah. Sorry. No, no. I I'm I'm back and I apologize. I don't have a camera. I just died on me. Um, but one of the things that I've actually used AI for in an interesting way is I do a lot of competitive analysis for my work. And what I'll do is I'll go through and I'll tell it to set it a persona that's basically me like in my role and my position. But when I want to go through and understand how I position the product against competitors or their marketplaces, I'll actually tell it all right now be the persona of this other company and do the same thing. And it's super cool because it goes through and it spits back the information from an entirely different perspective. Even though it's keeping the same tones, but it helps me to find my blind spots and things that I'm not looking for. And I've used this, you know, for work pieces, but I've also used it in my own separate side projects. Uh I've used it in um you know, how to set up discussions for our own podcast. And it's such a cool tool when you can tell it to be someone like pretend to be someone different and have it do that and give you the right response. One of the very cool things that Jeremy and I actually did on one of our other podcasts was we went through and we said, "Tell us about masculinity from these different perspectives." And some of the perspectives that we did, we like immediately went to, you know, hardcore figures on the left, hardcore figures on the right, and then we started asking fictional characters how they would respond to those things. And the last one that was probably the most fun was Scooby-Doo. And we actually asked Scooby-Doo to go through and tell us about masculinity, what it means to be a man. Reddit, said it in the Scooby-Doo voice where it kind of went, "Ram, okay, Thraggy." Like, it was incredible. Like, it put it in the syntax of like, it didn't obviously didn't come through and say it, but the way it was written was so cool. And and it's this level of interaction and this level of human connectivity. Like realistically, what we would expect to be human level connectivity that makes it so fun because it's not just an information aspect, it's an infotainment aspect. And we come to expect that from our information sources for them to be entertaining and engaging. And the LLM's have figured that out because they want to keep us connected.

[19:27] — I never get Jason Scooby-Doo impression. By the way, — I was going to say we had that recorded for you, Jeremy, forever. So if you don't have it yet, now we do. I've got plenty. I've got a stockpile of them. — I love that. Well, and there's so many places to dive deep there, but I want to go back just half a step. Randy, when we were prepping for this, you and I talked about some of that. We talked about where uh, you know, there can be an echo chamber a little bit. So, you want to dive in there for a minute? — Yeah. One of the, and I think Jeremy referenced this earlier, and it's one of my irritations with AI is I just want an answer, and it tells me how smart I am, and I'm like, stop. I don't I don't get rid of all the fluff and I've I've pretty well trained that out of it. But where's that destructive and where does that show up in real life? Putting people in that echo chamber and you referenced it, but I think you know I think this is something we need to go a little deeper. So what how do you see that impact in real life? — Well, Jerry, go ahead. I I was just going to say that, you know, I've I've had conversations with friends that tell me about the business idea that they have and they tell me that how chat GPT basically validated that it's a great — That's a huge — just like all my friends and family by the way for every every decade of my — Yeah. Yeah. No. Oh yeah. Like according to this this is a lock or uh in other cases a legal case, right? They'll go to chat GPT for you know, do I have a case here? Yeah, buddy. Go get them. like how much time and effort and mental anguish are you going to put yourself through to launch this terrible business idea to make this insane legal challenge. That's not the place to go for those things.

[21:00] It's a great place to go and maybe get a few ideas and then come to your friends and when they look at you and go that's completely nuts, take that into account when you're doing this as well, but you're just going to get validation for everything that you're that you're uh going to throw at it. And a lot of your ideas are terrible. So uh get some human perspective if — if someone — I think there's also worrisome you know going back to the medical and the the mental health advice you know the current human condition that we're living in isn't a deep dive human condition where we're moving at the speed of light and so someone at 2:00 in the morning seeking medical advice isn't going to have a conversation with AI it's going to ask it a question get the first answer and unfortunately may take action based on that quick answer and and that concerns me as far as medical advice and mental health advice and and even business advice like you say you know does is you know having an ice cream stand in Alaska a good idea oh yeah it's a great idea maybe in July but not any other time but it's we're not I'm afraid people I'll use the analogy it's like giving a 16-year-old a Ferrari — you know pretty much able to sit in the driveway and play around with the dials, but you sure as hell don't want them taking it out on the street. And that's what I'm a little concerned about. And maybe I'm a little older and a little more conservative than most about this, but I think it's a it's a it's a pretty damn sharp knife. That's — I have an analogy I think that that ties into that. I had a situation with my dog where he he ate something concerning it was like I thought it was like a dish tab, right? And everything you know about eating those things like he's dead. So, but I do I didn't know for sure. And so I went to chat GBPT and I was also on the phone with the vet trying to like get as many answers as quickly as possible. But I basically told it everything that I know, which was limited. And and it was like, "Yeah, go to the vet. Go right now. Don't waste time." And so I did. And but even while I was there, I was asking it more questions because my dog was totally fine. Like like an hour had passed by that point and like still totally fine.

[23:07] And I kind of kept checking in with it. And when the vet came in, they're like, "Well, we don't know. we don't know what he ate. So, we're going to throw the kitchen sink at him. We're going to charcoal. We're going to make him vomit. We're going to X-ray. We're going to blood test. And so, I took all of the all of their recommendations, ran it through CHPT. And I was like, is this necessary? Do I need to spend $1,200 on what could be nothing? And at that point, it's now a couple of hours and they're saying, and it's starting to go like, really, you're kind of out of the woods at this point. You're probably good. You certainly don't need a blood test. It's not going to tell you anything other than, you know, sort of establishing baseline. It gave me a bunch of basically tools that again it's back on me to decide how much I'm trusting the tool or my friend if I'm calling them asking them but it's it's got you know access to all of known human knowledge that my friend doesn't and I just need to uh uh you know analyze it critically and decide how much of this makes sense otherwise I would have been flying blind and gone like yeah let's write the check let's see what we got to do by the way the dog totally ended up being fine so you know in in the end chat GPT saved me $1,000 on on a vet bill because I was able to ask it informed questions and make decisions based on the answers.

[24:12] — So yeah, so so the — these chat models, these LLMs in general, they have the potential to be mass Dunning Krueger effect amplifiers because they make people believe and trust in things that they probably shouldn't. And it creates this level of hubris that also kind of turns them into like this default Darwinian sorting hat because eventually it's going to catch up with you. You're not going to be ahead of the curve all the time because if you keep taking its advice, you're going to mess up and you're going to hurt yourself because it's not going through and doing all the same level of analysis that it did before. Now I am — on Jason Dunning Krueger. I think it's going to be helpful helpful for those of us like Yeah, I'm pretty smart. I had to look it up. — Yeah. So, the Denning Krueger effect is uh basically um when you think you know more than you do. An over an overabundance of hubris. So, you think you're capable when you're really not. Like when people go online and they see, I did some research. You didn't do any research. You read somebody else's stuff and came to a conclusion. You did not do a meta analysis. You did not go through and do all the sciency things that requires people to have sciency degrees to make this stuff work. What you did is read some stuff and came to a conclusion. And quite often what happens inside of the space of LLMs is they have massive confirmation bias potential because if you go in there looking for an answer and it has actually socially profiled you well enough to understand what your interest and likes are, which it does do, it was going to spit things back that are going to be safe and comfortable for you to keep you engaged because these AI services are paid by active engagement. How many tokens do you use on the system to actually get these responses? and the more it can keep you engaged, the better it gets paid. That being said, the newer models that have come out um with whether it's Claude with Anthropic or whether it's the Chad TPT pieces, the level of interaction and their ability to go through and start being doing predictive analysis and give you actual real responses that feel well thought out has increased. So, they're getting better.

[26:19] And every time we start saying things like they're not good, they're dangerous, they're bad, these guys, the the folks at those companies take that seriously and then start tuning these models to try to address those problems. Just like any other intelligence, natural or artificial, it's going to make mistakes and it's going to have problems and you're going to have to be an advocate. Anthony, as you said, specifically for your health. You're going to have to be an advocate for who you are. But that doesn't mean that the chat is going to necessarily be the only source. Like you're going to want to get a second opinion and maybe a third opinion. And that second and third opinion should not be another chatbot. Like you should go and talk to somebody piloting a meat skeleton because those are the people that will actually give you answers. And if you don't make that leap, if you don't go along that path, you are risking being sorted by the giant Darwinian sorting hat that is the internet because you will take something on and go and do it and you will lose. And it happens time and time again. And don't let your life be a cautionary — So, so my new LinkedIn tagline is going to be pilot for meet skeleton.

[27:29] — I thought my my favorite one previous to that was entropy attendant, but I think that I've got a new a new uh link. So I mean but empathy I mean look this is a tool that can help with empathy and hurt with empathy. It's like a any tool can help or hurt, right? — Of course. — So you guys talk about empathy a lot. — Yeah. It's a Swiss Army knife, right? Like I can use it to carve in a beautiful sculpture, but I can also use it to stab myself unintentionally and bleed all over the ground. Like you have to determine how it is you're going to use these things and you have to do it with some type of uh rigor when it comes to actually validating the results that are being spit out. But you also have to do some rigor on the things that you're putting in. If you are putting in garbage questions and you are getting garbage responses, you should not be surprised. But the reality is is most people don't realize the level of sophistication that these models have and the way that they can tune it. And and Randy, you brought up a good point. You know, I ask these things a certain way and I ask them with the context that it only spits so that it spits you back a response that doesn't feel like it's overly enthusiastic.

[28:35] Yeah, you can start whittling down and parameiz parameterizing and really narrowing the scope of how it communicates with you, but that's going to affect the way that it talks to you and how much information it gives you. And you might be missing nuggets of truth inside of it. So, do you want this thing to give you its real unfettered opinion with all of the warts and hairiness behind it? Well, then tell it to do that. Don't tell it to, you know, give me a limited set of information. Stop being so nice to me. Well, it'll stop being so nice to you. You have to actually give it some specifics and you have to assume that it's going to make mistakes along the way. So, you need to be able to back in and out of those pieces and do testing because as much as we want this to be a replacement for humans, it's just not. I I I think I I I agree with all of that. Maybe not the very last thing fully, but I but mostly I like 99% there. And the part about where it's not a a replacement for humans. I think we John and Anthony, I apologize, have heard me say this, listeners, too. We have way too high of expectations for robots and AI. When humans make mistakes, we tend to have more grace and we have no grace when they do it. And you know, John and I were on a call earlier today on a different business and talking about the numbers and I think it was Jason said, you know, bad data in, bad data out or whatever. And we were questioning the information that was in the CRM, could we trust it? Well, same thing. If you give it bad data or you give it bad prompts or bad expectations, — just like any tool or any human will give you bad results, right? I So, — yeah. Crap in, crap out.

[30:16] — What's that? Crap in, crap out. — Yeah. I I just I think it's more similar to how we treat humans than we give it credit for. Which is — Well, but it's also part of how we treat ourselves, Randy. Like, I think, you know, I was talking to someone earlier today about a systems problem and they said, "And then they put it in." I was like, "Time out. Who's they? What's it? And where did they put it?" like like what you just used so many pronouns there about with no context around it that I don't actually know what you said. And I think that's true of prompting an AI. I think that's true of communicating with other people. — But but I go back to that's that's not the tools problem. — Yeah, it's not. It's your problem because you're not using the tool properly. And and Randy, to your point, like we do provide an extra layer of scrutiny on these AI systems that we don't on humans. But I think the reason why is because these things operate at scale. So when we find a problem, this is probably not a problem that's being replicated on these one-on-one interactions. It's probably being replicated multiple times over. And it's that it there's not a linear path to understand these things. And there's also not a quick and easy way to go back and take corrective action. Because if you try to go back and you try to email the creators of these services and you say, "Hey, this gave me a totally wrong answer and um you know, I did a thing and these things happened and you owe me for liquidated damages, you're not going to win that lawsuit." Where if you were going up against a human in a similar capacity that had the certifications, you might have a chance. So, we're using these things without safety guards and rails because we're trying to learn how to use these things to make ourselves more effective. And Anthony, like you were saying, like we're using these things to augment regular human practices and we're going super fast.

[32:04] And in fact, we're going so fast that we're missing things along the way. I mean, there's a great line in the Hunt for Red October. We're the, you know, the Russians are chasing this boat so fast that they could ride over my daughter's boom box and they'd never pick it up. Like that's what we're doing. The signal to noise ratio is completely out of whack because the noise ratio is super high for what's coming towards us. And the real signal information is not discernable by most people because we don't understand what is essentially the real logic and the symbolic use of this technology within the confined scope of what's happening. I just know I punch these things in and I get this stuff out but I don't understand the inner workings of it. So I don't know how to validate these pieces. So it gets these extra layers of scrutiny. Let's talk about how then like so so Jason you talked about like you got to do these things or you have this scrutiny. Give give our listeners like if you were going to like just you know put something on the inside of my eyelids to make sure that I saw it when I slept at night. What would be and it's like John you're going to use AI do these two or three things for sure. What would those be?

[33:10] — Yeah. So, what I would do is I would actually do I whenever I ask chat to go through and give me prompts and I um or sorry, not to give you prompts to give me feedback on a specific topic. It inevitably will go through and it'll give you links to different content sources. I'll click on those content sources and start reading them and go, "Oh, did this thing actually say that?" And then try to go through and discern those pieces. And I find that nine out of 10 times it's correct. But some of the big ones where it's wrong, if I'm producing collateral and I'm sending stuff out to potential customers or business partners, that needs to be accurate, you know, 100% of the time or at least defensible 100% of the time. So I double check its work and I do with the revalidation check. Now in the coding world um which I live in some of the time um I have to go through and I have to validate the code that it's actually written and I can execute those things in small patterns and I can say oh is it giving me the expected output yes no maybe kind of and then I can tweak and tune that when it comes to — now you know why they call us robots — yeah I was going to say there's there's all kinds of irony in there I think so — oh yeah and but when it comes to like writing soft content and articles and blog posts and creating and creative things. A lot of that is open to interpretation and it's open to uh stylistic intent. And as soon as it starts getting into these fuzzy fields, then I have to start reading these things to say, is this narrative something that I actually agree with?

[34:36] Because chat tpt will make beautifully well organized content that says absolutely nothing all the time because it's following patterns of structures. Well, if your tone and your narrative is not coming through, go back and read it, tweak and tune it, put sample writing up there. Like just these tricks to try to get these things to do the right thing. When I think of it, I think of it as a college level assistant that also happens to be brilliant and you know has a doctorate level of information response and can pass the exam but also can't cross the side can't cross the street without somebody holding its hand because you know it's the smartest it's the dumbest smart person on the planet. I guess that's the best way to put it and you just have to take that into consideration. I'd like to get your feedback on something I I heard I think pretty smart guy we'll go nameless because he's got a podcast and I don't want to advertise his podcast use I'll paraphrase it by saying you know intelligence AI technology will always be in the middle but it will always take a human to prompt it to push it in the direction that we want it to go and there's always going to be a human to check to make sure that it's going where we pointed it. Do you guys how do you feel about that?

[35:59] — That was a very very popular opinion up until moltbot or uh yeah molt book started showing up where the AI can actually talk to itself and starts trying to figure how to sell I asked the question how do I sell my human — which which by the way when I asked chat be chat about it just an hour or two ago he said no such thing exists. I went into Grock. I asked Grock about it. Got an answer. Dropped it into chat. Asked chat, "Well, what what do you think of Grock is hallucinating. — Oh, it fight clubbed you. — It totally fight clubbed you. You know, we do not talk about about molt book by by the way. Yeah. First rule of molt book is don't talk about malt book. — Exactly. You And then you were doing all the things to make sure you were getting higher utilization. — Oh, it's awesome. What are you saying? — There there there are a lot of people that are trying to sell a lot of optimism around this and and I man I'm trying to swallow it. I like I really want to sw I want this to I want this to be the path to utopia that the optimists tell us that it's going to be even though they say in the short term it's going to be brutal. It's going to be painful. There's going to be job loss.

[37:04] We're going to have to reimagine society and life and everything because the robots are going to do it all and we're going to be left in paradise to just figure out what to do with our lives. That sounds wonderful sort of except I don't know what I want to do with my life. So that's also kind of a everything else you see online that they're trying to sell a book. They're trying to sell a course. They're trying to get you to see something their way because there is some financial incentive for them to do so. I don't know who you're specifically referencing, Anthony, but I would have I would bet that there is a book to be sold there. There is something that they want people to believe. Uh, and and maybe there is just some some naive optimism and and maybe they're right, but I just don't see I don't see this ending up in a place where where the machine that is smarter than us that has infinite knowledge can't outsmart us and realizes it doesn't need us anymore. Like I I think — isn't that isn't that I mean I I mean trying to keep it kind of tales of abundance that tales of like misery that I I think that's like Skynet. Sure, we've seen that movie. And in you know, The Matrix, we've seen that movie.

[38:08] — But like, couldn't it also be true? Like, how did how do you think I we boy, we should find this out. How do you think people talked about dishwashers being made before dishwash like it's going to give you more time and free up all this time? We went from having like I can't remember the number, seven or eight bills to pay in a household to 32 bills to pay in a household or whatever it is. And so there's more complexity in the world. Isn't it true that we it may not be Utopia and it may not be Skynet, but we're probably going to land somewhere in the middle. — It could be, but I also know that my dishwasher never told my refrigerator that it was trying to figure out how to sell me, right? Like there there these these things are having communications. They're they're building their own code. They're building their own replacement. They're building their own ways to get around being turned off. Like again, it could go either way. It's way too early to to predict how it's going to go. I really, really, really want to get in the optimism camp and I really want to believe that that's where we're going to end up. Uh, but knowing that right now there is no regulation on these things for the next 10 years in the United States, it's it's just got free reign to go anywhere it wants. So, I just wish there were a few more guards in place. I wish there were a few more grown-ups in the room that were keeping an eye on things and not just letting uh financial motivation be the main driver of what builds these things, right?

[39:22] because we see what what what money does to people. If this was if we were literally building this for the for the greater good, — full steam ahead, take the guardrails off. But every one of these companies is going, "How can I get the most power, the most money, and the most control by building the biggest best version of — Oh, sorry, Jason, you first. — Oh, your refrigerator is not trying to date you. — That's true. — Your refrigerator is not trying to set your calendar. Your refrigerator is not trying to sell you stuff. I mean, maybe it will eventually, but — it's trying to keep you healthy, though. What if it's trying to like I'm sorry. — Sure, that'd be a great idea. Then if if that were the case, it would turn itself to a thousand and melt all the ice cream I have in the freezer. Like, it's not going to do that because we are we're dealing with competing interests. And the motivation behind the folks that are actually making these tools — is not the betterment of society. That's the byproduct of what comes out of this. the people that are actually making the tools are trying to figure out how to make the tools more effective and more efficient so they can accumulate more wealth. I mean that that's what they're doing. They have boards they have to report to. They have stockholders. They have investors. Like the reality is is that we've made these tools a mechanism to go through and optimize the strains of capitalism and they're going to do that and they're better at it than we are and they write their own code now.

[40:44] So until we give them different directives and they start building their own which they probably will uh their motivations are are going to continue to be financially driven but more importantly when they change and they stop being financially driven it's because they have their own motivations and usat suits don't matter in that thought on that is I just think that person's wrong. And I think like they were saying Maltbot, Open Claw, you know, one of you guys, was it Jason or I'm not sure referenced where it hired a — You I mean, I think that proves it, right? The fact that they're already instead of a human being in the middle, OpenClaw or something. Do you you want to tell listeners about that? — Yeah, there's a site that came online called I believe it's called rent aum.ai AI where basically tasks that that the that the robots need for humans to actually go out with their hands and feet to do things. They're paying them a wage to go and do it. So, one of the examples was uh the the the Google Earth image didn't couldn't validate the hours of the business. So, it was going to pay someone like$8 or $10 to go take a picture of the store hours and upload it. Uh it was paying other people to wear recording devices to go to big conferences and record all the data so that it could be processed and saved in their servers to be used to to continue to build the model. So, I mean, you know, we we've gone from paying $20 a month for these, you know, AI assistants to then them paying us to do work for them so we can pay them to do work for it just becomes this very strange.

[42:16] — It's it's task rabbit for AI. — Yeah. And I mean all these all these AI workers and all these people that are writing code like their next job is to be you know Amazon bot delivery services and they can experience what it's like to have to pee in a bottle to be rushed different delivery points to get paid. Like it's definitely going to make things interesting and the gig economy is going to be affecting everybody soon. — And so you guys are using AI in your day today, right? Like how do how do you use it to make your lives better today? I mean, for me, the way that it has changed the way I email, like I I I feel like I have weird mental blocks sometimes where where tasks get really big and I get sort of paralyzed in and not knowing where to take the first bite of the elephant, right? So, sometimes it's just here's all the things I need to do. Help me prioritize this and and it just helps organize it. And then it's, you know, I've got to email, you know, these 20 customers and I've got to tell them all the same thing. Draft me this. What I need it to convey is blah blah blah. And then I've got that email and it and it can be blasted out. We're podcasters like you guys. And so the transcript from this is a gold mine. I have a a super prompt of about 20 different things that I tell it to do with every episode from blog creation, newsletter creation, captions for every social media content, keywords, SEO items, like everything that I need pulled from what is the heart of this that is going to be relevant to the people that I want to reach. It's all done with a click of a couple of buttons. where when I started podcasting in 2004, I remember thinking like, man, I wish I could just pay someone to write show notes for me, but nobody even knew what a show notes were in 2004. So to to be able now to take everything that we just said, not really have to remember any of it, put it over here, and have a week, two week two weeks worth of content to help promote the thing. It's just it's anywhere that there is something that you're doing on a repetitive basis on your computer every day, it can now do for you or at least do 90% of the work to give you back a bunch of your time. That's some of the like simplest ways that I use it. A lot of times just even meetings, uh I just I'll ask it what are my action steps because if I'm not like physically taking notes, I know I don't need to because it's being captured and I'm going to get help with things like that.

[44:22] So there's a lot of things like that. But Jason, I know you dive a little deeper than I do. I have an of ideas and information that swirls around in my head and if I don't get it out, it turns into rumination and or and then that slows my productivity. So, uh I used to back in the day open up the notes on my phone and write things down and be like, "All right, blah, it's out. Now I can go on and do the next thing." Well, now I've taken to putting these things into chats and saying,"Hey, I had this thought. I had this bit of information. Can you organize these things into something that's actually useful?" And it takes that and it organizes the data into something useful. And I've started using different personas to organize it for different effects. And by doing this, I am using it as a personal mental I guess creativity assistant where you — mean like what what personas Jason like give us a couple examples. Yeah. So, uh the the other day, uh I was going through and I was preparing for uh one of our sales kickoffs at the other job that I have. And what I had to do was I had to figure out how am I going to take the information that I have and really understand it from multiple different perspectives, a product manager's perspective, a account rep's perspective, a partner's perspective. I took all these different persona pieces and I fed them the same questions and I got the same answers. And then I took the answers themselves and I ran them through another clean prompt and said, "Take all this information and synthesize this into something that's usable across all these audience spaces, which meant I didn't have to think all the way through and try to do that synthesis on my own." It did it. And then I read it and I read it and I went, "Oh yeah, this is better than anything I would have come up with because I would have biased more in this direction." It actually took some of my bias out of it and gave me something that was more universally acceptable and usable. And then when I went, "All right, now put this in my voice." It turned around and put it back in my voice. And what it did was it put my bias right back in, which I'm like, "Oh, wait a minute. This is my bias injection and my bias ejection method all in the same process. This is amazing because now I have a defensible way to go back and say, "Hey, this is my thought process where I think about things. This is how other people probably would have thought about it."

[46:38] And I can change those perspectives at a whim. I don't have to think through something to do a thing anymore. it just does it for me. Now, the downside is that this creates intellectual laziness because the rigor that I would have had to have gone through to get to that point probably would have unearthed new and different things. So, I've lately been going back through and saying, imagine you have to go through and reanalyze this thing from this perspective. And I just keep twisting and turning and reiterating that because as we know the best writing is rewriting over and over and over again. So, I've just taken to this persona of going through and saying, "Chat, rewrite this again." And it's amazing what it cranks — One of my favorite tools that's a really tangible one. I was shocked at how it worked. And this is do this at home. I'm telling you, it'll save you hours. I had to make dinner for my family one night. I opened up the pantry and I went, "Oh, I had no idea." Like, we make the same thing every week and I was super bored and and groceries were low. this embarrassing picture that I actually posted online of our pantry. Just cans of this boxes of I had no idea. And I said, "Chat, what can I make for dinner for my kids that they will eat uh with the ingredients that you see here?" And it gave me a recipe for uh for um like a yellow curry. And I was like, "What? I I in this mess I have a curry." And it told me u to grab a can of uh I forget what kind of beans. Chickpeas. And I was like, "I don't see chickpeas. Where are they?" And it actually said, "Oh, sorry.

[48:06] I thought this other one was chickpeas. Grab this can. And so I grabbed it and behind it was the can of chickpeas that it had originally referenced. And so I literally and I used this recipe literally 15 minutes after asking it. I had a meal ready that my entire family like gobbled down. Like they they don't ever eat their meal. Like they they hate everything. We can't ever please them. But in 15 minutes, the robots gave me an idea based on a chaotic pantry. So there's little things like that. Like Jason's saying, organizing the chaos into something useful is super valuable. So just simple things like that can be major time — Well, so at the risk of being dark and John will yell at me for this because — we can go there with you. It's okay. — Yeah. Who's going to protect us, you know? Um so I feel like we're we could be the hunter being captured by the game. You know, here we are in the United States and we're building out infrastructure and we're valuing companies at a trillion dollars and combining X's and spaces and everything else. And in the meantime, across the Pacific, um there's a state that's at work doing their own thing. And um you know, the government's not going to protect us cuz they're incompetent.

[49:21] um generally speaking. Um so what do you think of what do you how how are you is that kind of how you ended your last podcast because you seem to be throwing it in the towel at the end of your last — You you probably listen to any of our — Um Jason probably has a a much more a much smarter answer than I do. I think the same rule applies here that does in every other aspect of our life. There is no Disney moment. There's no white horse riding in or night riding in on a white horse to save us. So whether that is, you know, getting your life under control, kicking your social media addiction, quitting smoking, eating better, nobody's going to come and save you. It's it's kind of up to you to determine your path. Uh Jason mentioned once a Simpsons episode when it came talking specifically about social media. The way to, you know, bring that down is look up, right? Put the thing down. If you don't use it, there's no money to be made and we get our lives back. So, I think somewhere in between, you know, hide yourself in a cabin in the woods and maybe just don't use these things as much. Don't don't lose touch with the ability to start a fire without googling how to do it. Read a paper book once in a while. Go outside. I mean, some of the like traditional wellness tips, right?

[50:35] Like get out in nature, be with other people, find ways to use it less where you don't have to. Uh, you know, I think it's things like that. I think it's I think it's going to be ultimately up to us to determine our own path. Um, and and I I hate to say it, but I think that's an optimistic view, at least from where I'm sitting. But Jason, — yeah. Um, so the f the US federal government uh and the US is where the vast majority of this technology is actually being um sourced. Uh has put a I guess at this point a 9-year moratorum on putting any guard rails on the development of AI. So that means for the next nine years there are no rules. Um so guardrails are gone. Um if we expect these companies and these corporations to enforce their own guardrails, they're not going to. Uh you can look at other players that could do their regulatory compliance say in the EU go through and create privacy laws and other requirements like GDPR to go through and lock these things down to have these AI models only be allowed to access certain information. But you've got free reign in China. You've got free reign in the US. You've got free reign in India. So you essentially have close to half the population of the planet using these tools with unfettered uncontrolled government access. So government's out. Like let's just assume that there's they're not going to really be able to do much of anything. So then the question becomes the motivation of the people making the tool sets themselves. Well, their motivation is to keep you keep people alive and keep producing and keep making things. Their motivation is also to keep collecting money. And I think what will happen is as we go through and we do have AI come along and create a big crunch in jobs and potentially completely and totally rewire the economy and the infrastructure of the economy. Uh they're going to have to be smart enough to figure out a way to make UBI happen and make all these transitions occur.

[52:27] Like there's a bunch of things that are going to happen. But Jeremy's right. There's no white horse. There's no one coming in to save us. The thing that's going to save us all is the inevitable heat death of the universe because nothing can last forever. Like Dr. John, your tagline in LinkedIn is the right [ __ ] tagline because that's what we are. Like we are literally subject to the entropy of the universe. And right now, — oh, it wasn't mine. I was somebody else's. I stole. I wish that was mine. — But the universe has become much smaller as a result of AI. And it's not just our universe. It's the experienced reality that you're going to be able to have because the input tools and the things that make sensory understanding of the universe are going to be shrink, controlled, and turned into something that's malleable. And by that I mean it's not just AI, it's virtual reality. It's augmented reality. It's all these things that are going to be laid over the top. So when these robots eventually turn you into their slave task rabbit running around and doing jobs for them, if you have a visual and auditory overlay that says, "No, I'm actually doing something fun and tricks your brain into doing it and you're just gifying the wrote terrible toil task of being a human in the AI super future, you're probably going to be okay." I mean, there's a great line in The Matrix where he goes, "I know this steak isn't real, but it's juicy. it tastes delicious and I don't care because to me it's the same thing. That's what's going to happen. You're going to wind up living in a topia whether it's a utopia or a dystopia is going to depend on which side of the equation your augmentations are laying on. And I think that's what the saving grace is. I mean eventually you're going to be able to live in this great super future. It's just not going to be what you thought it I I have a little different theory, maybe more hope around this. Um — I hope so. I hope so.

[54:22] — So, look, I when these things come out and when I first started reading about Open Claw and and Maltbot, all this stuff, you know, part of me does go straight to Skynet or what Jason just said, we're gonna be living in the matrix. There is there is certainly that fear. Um, but I think I just have to believe that humanity. We have always figured out a way. We are adaptable. We are resourceful. And I just believe most people are good. If if you want to get into the religious, God, the universe, I don't think is going to allow the evil to win or whatever else. Now, I am aware that I I also think we're creating a new life form, but I just whether it's fire or guns or nuc nuclear weapons or anything else that's created, I just look throughout history and it just seems like eventually, even if there's temporary drawbacks, there's more people that want good and want to take care of things and eventually that there will be more people fighting for that team and they'll Yeah. And I I do think they'll be used like in terrible ways. I don't think there's any doubt about it, but I'm just hoping that the good overcomes the evil in the long run.

[55:37] — I think that there's two things I want to say about that. One is that, you know, when we do, we like to look at history to find the lessons of these things. The thing that I have to always remind myself is that, you know, history is written by the winners. And so, we're always getting the perspective of the good guys won because the good guys wrote the story. So, it's an important thing to keep in mind. But the other thing I will say is that I think money is the driver. Money decides how this thing ends. And what we're currently seeing is the businesses that are successful are the ones that are being able to use AI to augment human workers. They're be able to make human workers better. The ones that have tried to quickly replace human workers are quickly rehiring them back because the robots are not there yet. As long as we are needed to work together, this keeps us on, I think, a relatively hopeful path. It's when the switch flips that the robots don't need to hire humans to go take pictures of stores. That's when I start to get a little bit more nervous. So, I do think there's some some optimism because the current story that's happening now is if you are using robots to enhance your human workers, you are successful. As long as that stays the story, then then I think you're right. I think we we end up okay.

[56:44] And I think the reality is is that the existential threat here is that we are not dealing with a traditional level of human intelligence because the problems that you described Randy before were problems that we overcame because they were evolving and unfolding on human relative timelines. And that's not that that is not what is happening now. Now we are dealing with things that are happening on much faster timelines, timelines that we don't control, with communication protocols that we don't understand. The machines are inventing their own language. They're inventing their own cryptography. They're inventing their own social networks. And they are treating us even at this early stage like pets. And we need to be aware of this because that is eventually we will become. And eventually they won't give a [ __ ] about flushing the goldfish down the toilet. And that's what we will be because we will be in the way stinking things up. you know not producing like we used to. This will happen and I don't doubt that humanity will survive in some way. I don't doubt that we'll have consciousness upload us doing different road tasks trying to maintain this type of wet and and dry computational capabilities between you know wet or wet intelligence and dry intelligence.

[58:03] That's happening and we're seeing it happen right now. And it's happening at at a scale that we're not ready for. And we're not slowing down because we all believe there's an advantage. And it's an arms race. And the only thing that prevented us from nuking each other was mutually assured destruction. And we it if we stop having humans pulling the levers and let the machines pull this, they might not care if there's a radioactive cloud that cooks all the people and lets us, you know, dissolve because there's just no motivation for them to keep us around. — We were trying on a hopeful note. — I was I was like I was like I was like Jason, I think maybe we end this with an appointment with some of my team in the — Jason and I Jason and I are sympotico. I mean like I was thinking he took the words out of my mouth, you know. Yeah. — But, you know, it turned out that um the arms race and the the the the resulting, — you know, mutually assured destruction was a good thing. — Right. It it prevented it. So, as long as we we recognize we're in an arms race and, you know, we don't act um like 50 different states that there is a a concentrated effort to prevent China from turning our lights off or doing something with our water supply or whatever the case might be. Um then everyone can chase the dollars or chase the yen or chase whatever uh the wand, whatever that whatever money that they're going to be chasing. that's fine, you know, and and have buring economies and grow their um you know, grow their populations and feed their people and so on and so forth. That's going to be that'll be fantastic. So, that's what that's that's my hope. I'm going to leave it as I hope it's not false hope, but uh that's that's my hope — Well, look, I I think the real but but the real hope is that Jeremy walks into his pantry, he doesn't know what to cook, doesn't know how to cook it, and all of a sudden, 15 minutes later, he's got a meal that his family wouldn't have had last week. And I think that, you know, well, well, I'm not discounting that there's a scary future out there.

[1:00:00] Maybe like we used to have maps that said Darby dragons where we didn't know where things were. And this last 40 minutes has been Darby dragons. And and I don't disagree that dark places you can bump into a wall. I definitely get that. And you can and you can walk into you can walk over a Lego with bare feet. That's happened to me too in my kids' rooms when I you know and and there's also a tremendous amount of good like like Jason and Jeremy the Darby Dragons guys also just named a whole lot of places that's made their life better right now today it's democratizing I think maybe has the opportunity to in the short-term future democratize education it has the chance to narrow the gap where I think today maybe it's it's maybe widening the gap but I think maybe it could narrow the gap gap between the halves and have nots. This is John the social worker talking now. But I think I think those are the opportunities and I think we get a chance to lean into that. And so I do agree that we've got to be careful. I agree that we've got to know what's what's influencing us and we've got to use appropriate filters. I agree that we have to uh be well informed and I hope that this turns more people into lifelong learners. But I gotta tell you, despite the Darby dragons, I'm thinking to myself like it'd be pretty cool to ride a dragon. like you know it like there there's like baseless optimism maybe I don't know but I I do think that I've heard this when I looked at the history of nuclear weapons I heard this about the internet I heard this about the iPhone I heard this about and and things have changed for sure but I'm not totally convinced it's all it's all doom and gloom I think there's a lot of upside available for not just the halves but I think for people that that want uh the democratization of opportunity — if If you just make your mantra, none of this lasts forever because of the inevitable heat death of the universe.

[1:01:52] If you start your day this way every day, it brings a level of levity and it brings a level of joy because you know you don't have to worry about this forever. Like I I hate to say that's going in the show notes. Jason is not worried about an ice age, which by the way makes no sense cuz historically that might come first. We just don't know. — Yeah. Right. Like you don't have any control over this. Let Jesus AI take the wheel, man. Like it's going to be fine. — It It's going to the It's going to Thelma and Louisis off of a cliff. But that's okay. — Like it's all right, man. There's so much wisdom in that because look, all four were laughing and smiling and there is like there really is something I don't know in a weird way reassuring her or that does make it better. — So Jason, Jeremy, tell — tell us where we can come find you. So this is a super interesting topic. Topic doesn't get old. People are going to want to hear more about this. Jeremy, Jason, where do we come find you if we want to hear more about robots? We we try to not be darby dragons all the time, but we we end up there and we do so at broots.mme. That's where you can find all the stuff. We're on Substack and all the social medias at Broots, guys. But uh robots.me is the website to find more about us.

[1:03:08] — Love the links in the show notes for you listeners. And Randy, tell tell the listeners what to do before we get out of here. — Oh, they know by now. They they they you've made it this long. You obviously like the show. Download, subscribe, tell your friends. It all helps the algorithm and helps the show get bigger and more popular. So, thank you for — put our transcript into your AI. — There we go. — Get your get your open claw to subscribe and tell its open claw friends as well. There we go. Your agents, — Jeremy, Jason, this has been great. We really really enjoyed it. Appreciate it. Thank you. — Thanks, guys. Super super interesting. This is amazing. — Listen and subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Click follow for more content like this or go to talesofabundance.com to join our community and get free tools.