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How to Learn AI in 2026 and Rewiring Your Belief Systems

Episode 64 · 4 March 2026 · 58 min

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How to Learn AI in 2026 and Rewire Your Belief Systems

How to learn AI in 2026? Start by talking to it in plain English and letting it interview you. Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino share practical AI tips, then turn to a harder kind of learning: changing a belief system. John opens up about his own block around marketing and self-promotion.

In this episode of Tales of Abundance, hosts Dr. John Oberg, Randy Lorensen, and Anthony Marino return from their recent travels to dive deep into two of the most critical drivers of abundance in the modern age: technological fluency and psychological flexibility. The conversation begins with a practical look at how to master AI in 2026, moving beyond simple search queries to using AI as a sophisticated partner for building apps and websites. John shares a remarkable story of how his wife, Amber, used tools like Cursor and Gemini to build a fully functional travel-planning business in a single weekend—demonstrating that the barrier to entry for complex creation has never been lower.

The episode then shifts into a vulnerable and rigorous exploration of belief systems. John opens up about his personal struggle with the concept of marketing and self-promotion, diagnosing how past experiences and a fear of "doing harm" created a mental block that hindered his mission to help millions with Type 2 Diabetes. The trio unpacks the cognitive behavioral approach to identifying these "abundance blockers," the difference between core values and movable beliefs, and the power of group accountability in making a lasting shift. Whether you are looking to automate your workflow or dismantle a decades-old mindset, this episode provides the blueprint for evolving alongside the world around you.

How to Change Your Belief System, Values vs Beliefs, and Using AI as a Therapist

What you'll discover:

  • How John's wife built a working website in a weekend with AI coding tools
  • Randy's prompting tip: ask the AI to interview you before it answers
  • The anatomy of a belief system, and John's struggle with marketing and self-promotion
  • The CBT approach: choose a second point of view and act "as if" until the evidence follows
  • Values vs beliefs, marketing vs manipulation, and using AI as a coaching or therapy partner
  • The "I release, I choose" journaling method

Timestamps

  • [00:00] Back from the Rockies and the Bahamas: recharging with friends vs. decompressing alone
  • [04:00] Dystopian reads: White Noise, 1984 and looking to the past to understand the future
  • [06:07] How to learn AI in 2026: John's wife builds a website in a weekend with AI coding tools
  • [14:05] Practical AI tips: talk to it in plain English and have it interview you
  • [17:10] Break: AG1
  • [18:00] The anatomy of a belief system: John's struggle with marketing
  • [21:13] The fear of self-promotion and "misguided" marketing
  • [28:50] The CBT approach to change: choose a second point of view and act "as if"
  • [33:55] Why changing a belief is slow, and how accountability helps
  • [40:47] Values vs. beliefs: what stays fixed and what has to flex, like money and security
  • [43:27] Marketing vs. manipulation, and letting people dislike your message
  • [49:30] AI as a coaching or therapy partner for psychological blocks
  • [55:03] The "I release, I choose" journaling method
  • [56:09] Final takeaways

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About the hosts

This is a hosts-only episode with no guest: Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino. (Host bios are on the host pages linked below.)

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Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect some spelling errors in names and terms.

[00:12] Abundance. Gentlemen, you are back from your trips. Tell Tell me, John, let's start in the in the Rockies. You were skiing. What? — Yeah, I was skiing. We — It was Well, you know, for me, if I'm with friends, I can have fun doing almost anything if it's legal and ethical, you know? So, like we go skiing once a year for I think this is our 21st year doing it or 20th year doing it — and the snow in the Rockies has not been great this year. Thankfully, there's about 25 in dumped right before we got up there about 2 days early. So, we found some fresh powder but uh a lot of rocks. Uh but really it's the time with friends, you know, the time in the car, the time playing games. We played board games and poker uh you know, and so it's really just the time with friends, you know, eating together and just catching up on one another's lives. That's that's to me always the most valuable part of these things. I love hanging out with — Yeah, that's my experience is a lot of times the trip is who you take it with, right? And the company and if you if you're with the right people, you have fun anywhere you're at. Well, Anthony, you went to a little different. You went to the Caribbean or specifically the Bahamas. Tell us about that. So, you know, we're very fortunate that we're able to stay at a very very nice resort that's very quiet away from um the the maddening crowds. Uh we're a little bit different when we travel. We we like to be alone. Uh we really do.

[01:32] It's it's it's our time. It's our time, you know. Um and — by us, you mean you in general? — Just me? Yeah. My wife and I. And um it's really a time to decompress, you uh that leave the phone in the room, go to the beach, read a book, you know, um and just they have some conversation and then really good meals and just, you know, the Bahamas are the Bahamas. They're be it's beautiful. It's quiet. It's serene. Um the weather's always great there. You don't have to worry about snow. Uh the ocean, the tide comes in, it goes out, comes back again. You know, it's just a it's just a beautiful place. And it's, you know, very very fortunate to be able to to do that. It's not that I don't mind being with people. Um, just that sometimes all the coordination, the where do you want to eat, you know, that kind of stuff. But you don't have to make those decisions. Whatever she wants, that's what we go do. [snorts] You know, I don't — Do you do you do you want to point this out, John, or do you want me to?

[02:38] — Go ahead. I can't. I have a whole bunch of things to say. you're with people like John's talking about being with a group of people. You're talking about being with one person. So I think that but in either case I think you're with you're with people a lot. — So we don't you know we don't look at it that I mean we are one you know we we we're just one person. We have very similar personalities. We like the same things. Yeah. Maybe she likes a different kind of book than I I'm going to read, but you know we were we went sailing. you know, we love being on the water. We like the same things. And so there's no stress associated with it. You know, traveling, uh, I don't know what it's like to get to Crested, but John, but you know, to get to the Bahamas, you got to go through Atlanta, you got to get on another flight, you got to get down there, and then you got to come back. You got to go through immigration, you got to come back through customs, which you clear customs in in the Bahamas with it. So they make it pretty pretty simple, but you know, the two and fro of traveling out of the country is not simple. You know, well, I shouldn't say that it's simple, but it's a little it's a little crowded, let's say. You know, when we get to the — there's a queue to get in through immigration that's, you know, significantly longer than you'd like.

[03:56] — So, when you once you're there, — what did you read, Anthony? What did you read? I'm reading a book um and um it's uh it's a little dark to say the least but you know I've been reading you know um you know like 1984 and Animal Farm and things like that kind of dystopian stuff um because I'm in one of those moods lately so — later on I'll read Harry Potter or something you — I don't know. — We'll see. I There's a I think there's a lot to learn that get off the subject a little bit. There's a lot to learn from people who wrote long ago and what their view of the future was essentially. That's what 1984 was and that's what this book is about. It's kind of here we are now, but you know what does the future hold and and so you know you just draw parallels to it and um it's a good read. It's a good It's a It's a good read. It's a little tough at times, but um that's that's where my head's been at. So, um — yeah, a lot of that a lot of that's happening in the real world around us.

[05:12] And by the way, I do need to point out your first world problems. All your all your old friends and family that you grew up around in Boston and it's cold up there and there's snow up to their waist, they feel really really sorry for you that you have these problems getting in and out of the country to go to the Bahamas. I'm just on the phone with my sister in Connecticut and she's still digging out up there. So, — yeah, it is tales of abundance. So, we — yeah, it was it was an abundant vacation. I can guarantee you that. — All right, let's uh well, let's talk about spreading abundance. And we talk about AI a lot, but uh John, you had the idea today to talk about practical like how do people learn AI? because I do think we talk about it a lot that there are a lot of people that are intimidated or they don't know where to start or I think even most people using it are just using it as a different type of search engine to ask questions to. So, you know, let's let's jump into that. How how do you learn AI in 2026? — You know, for me, I think this was I use AI all the time in my work in lots of different ways, but really I was watching my wife use AI and we love travel. We love, you know, uh planning travel. We've got lots of cool trips planned. And she's got this really cool AI that she built first inside of Gemini where it's just a custom GPT essentially. And then she actually built a a lightweight app that she's running on her computer now that has it's hooked up to like I can't remember which AI she's using on the back end. She built a website essentially and without having to use like a website platform, she built a lightweight fully functional like full navigation website. Log in.

[06:48] She hooked one of the credit card services up to it so it can take credit cards. She has pricing plans for like plan a trip for $10 based on your family, your preferences, like all your stuff, where you want to go, your budget. And it's really cool. Like she showed me five or six trips that she planned just as practices. And it's and this website is gorgeous. Like I told her, I was like I was a little bit upset because you know I've built a couple websites for my companies and like my websites are okay, but her websites came out just like beautifully done. amazing content and she did it in a weekend. — Hold on. She built those websites with AI like used CL code or something or whatever code — she's using. She used cursor but yeah and she just I think she just wrote the HTML and then rendered it and then rendered it locally and then she's got a hosting company ready to take it on so she can host it live like it's just man things have moved so quickly from even how I was doing web design a year ago. — So okay you made a big jump. We went from we went from the standard user using it to replace Google to Amber super user designing apps with it. So where where do you start? Because most people aren't starting where Amber is.

[07:58] — I I think that's the point is like you start with an AI and you kind of build a custom AI with prompting and instructions in your area of expertise and then if you're working inside your area of expertise, you can go pretty far pretty quick. I am fairly sure that like in my area of expertise, I'm doing stuff that's that's cool. But if I tried to do it in marketing where Amber has expertise, I can't get as far as she can get. Like it's amazing some of the stuff she's doing. And so as I'm talking to people about like using AI, it's like how do you lean into your strengths? And then then as I talk to my my kids, I'm trying to help them develop strengths, right? So it's like AI and strengths and learning. And so I think that there's you can use AI in your area of strength to move yourself forward. I think you can also use AI to then learn things where you don't have an area of strength, but you've got to be a little bit careful because you know AI can take you down the wrong track on the learning on on the learning front if you're if you're in an area where you have no expertise at all. — But I do think John that if you well you can't go as far if it's not your area of expertise. But that's true in life.

[09:03] You can go from no knowledge of something to pretty decent knowledge like almost immediately, right? And yeah, you're not going to be as good as the expert, but why would you expect to be as good as the expert in something? — Well, and you have to remember, you know, you've said this a hundred times. It's like if you're learning from a person, you can take a grain of salt because you know that person may be imperfect. AI is also imperfect. In my experience, it's less imperfect than humans, but it's still imperfect. And so I think you just don't want to have the certainty that sometimes comes through in the tone of the AI. And and you know, you know me well enough, the two of you know me well enough certainty is one of my weaknesses. Like I I come across as certain no matter what I'm talking about, even if I'm guessing. And so I've got to be really careful to say like, "Hey, I don't know about ABC, but here's what I read." And so I try to I try to be a good steward of information in that way, but you guys have joked with me about that over the years. Like that's that's just a that's a a weak point for So Anthony, what are your thoughts on — Not a topic for today. — Where [laughter] Anthony, where I mean, you're you're probably a little you use AI a lot, but you're probably using it less than John and I. Like what has been beneficial for you in learning how to use it?

[10:12] — So, you know, I I always seem to have a contrarian view of of things. I you know, my my my — It's the books you're reading. — Yeah. My um my view is that you know my view of AI quote unquote AI is evolving and the way I'm the way I'm approaching technology is is just that it's it's a it's a certain it's a technology with certain capabilities — and does it fit into do I need it? Can I can it help me do something that I'm working on or playing with? And sometimes the answer is yeah, it it it's great. You know, if I'm doing data analysis or plugging, you know, 200 city names into a zip code file to determine what cities to send marketing material to or not. It's great. It's great for that. Um, ask it, you know, quick. Frankly, I I haven't used searched on Google for anything. I can't remember the last time I asked Google a question.

[11:23] What what's evolving for me is how people are using various AI tools. In the in the case of quote unquote chat, we'll use that because it's pretty generic. What irrespective of using Grock or Gemini or Claude, people are like having conversations. They're not just asking questions. They're they're having conversations. They're creating personas so that the the the bot, if you will, knows, you know, kind of where you're coming from. It remembers everything. It remembers. When I asked I I recently asked it to do something for me and it referred me back to something I had done two months ago and said, "Would you like it in this format?" And I had forgot about that old format and it brought it forward for me. It was like, you know, it was like a teacher. Hey, don't you remember we in the first semester we taught you all about that? Well, here it is again. So, it's it's just another tool in the toolkit. It's, you know, it is the um it's like that uh tool that has the pliers, the screwdriver, the ratchet all on one thing. It's got Swiss Army knife, if you will, of of technology right now. Um, and I'm getting comfortable where I at the beginning I really I I was kind of nerve-wracked about it. Um, but when John said that his wife created a website, that sparked something in my head saying, hm, I wonder I wonder how she made that leap from asking it, you know, what's Antarctica like in June versus now I'm going to build a website.

[13:06] That's a pretty — huge jump, right? So, um, that's got sparked some interest and I'm going to bang around, bang some keys later today, maybe and tomorrow and see see how how she got there. — Your your answer, if I can sum it up, is you just dig in, play with it, and get a little better. Is that pretty much what you're saying? — Does it work for you? Can It's It's as simple It's as It's as simple a tool as there is, and it's the most complex tool that there is at the same time. You know, it's the That's a It's a It It's the eighth wonder of the world to me. It's absolutely the eighth wonder of the world. It's just I I'm just I'm I'm I'm evolving. I'm And I'm trying not to be pessimistic about where it could lead and I'm not I'm not worried about agents being created on their own and talking to each other and ending the world and all that stuff. But for me, it's a cool tool. I think I giving people practical tips. The first thing I would say is if people don't know how to use it or you're intimidated, [snorts] the great thing is that you can talk to it in English. A lot of times you push a button and you literally can talk. You don't even have to type. But just go to whatever AI you're using.

[14:22] — Pick one. I don't really care. And just ask it, — how do I use you? And start, like Anthony said, start having a conversation. And the more context you give it, the better the answers. But one of the things I've been using maniacally for weeks now is I write a prompt and then I ask AI, what other questions do you have for me to make this prompt even better? And it asks me questions and then a lot of times I'll say, do you have more questions? And as it and then I say, okay, now take my original prompt, those questions, and write the perfect prompt for me. And it's unbelievable how good the results are. So my advice to people is just do like Anthony saying, do it, but just the the practical way is ask it. — What to do if you want. You can create a training program. Just go in AI and say, "Hey, I don't know how to use AI. Can you create a 30-day or I I don't care 7-day, 30-day, 365 day, whatever you want training program. I want to spend 10 minutes a day, 15 minutes a day, an hour a day and that, you know, I would even get tell it more. I'd tell it how I learn and you know, I'm visual or I'm a or I learn by doing or whatever. Right.

[15:39] — And Randy, I think that's the thing that people, you know, I think it may not be obvious listening to you. You [clears throat] do a great job of like communicating for clarity with the AI. Like I've watched you prompt and you've watched me prompt, right? So, we So, a couple things that aren't obvious at this point is that we try to help each other by like I'll watch Randy prompt and I'll learn a bunch of stuff about how to get better at prompting. I think you have the same thing when you watch me do that. And Randy will prompt and then prompt again and then prompt again. And and the prompts are like ask the question, ask it to make the question better, ask if it's totally clear, ask what's unclear, all in separate prompts if necessary. And so that level of communication for clarity is kind of the opposite of the handwaving we're doing right now with you. And so it wouldn't be totally obvious. And I think that that's maybe the thing we should call out to people is it takes a little more patience. And so while it might take, you know, 10 minutes instead of a single prompt with Google uh from a year ago, eventually you become much better at prompting and eventually the information and things it unlocks for you are so much greater that it saves you huge amounts of time. But I just again I want to make sure that what's not obvious we kind of call out clearly.

[16:48] — Right. Okay. All right. Bottom line jump in what whatever level you're at learn more. Uh we are going to go to break and when we get back uh we are going to dig into uh John's changing a belief system and I think this is pretty exciting and and so we're going to rip John open and pick on him a little bit but we'll be back after the break. — Here are tales of abundance. We know that fitness is just as important as money or milestones. It's one of our fivefs for lots of others. Taking care of my body while I build my life is one of the more time consuming and difficult goals to chase. That's why we're partnering with AG1. It's a daily drinkable habit. Less than a minute that's formulated with 75 plus vitamins and nutrients and designed to support energy, digestion, and immune defense. It even has a few grams of protein uh that we're all chasing these days. If you want to try it with our affiliate link, you'll also receive a free AG1 flavor sampler plus vitamin D3 plus K2 with your welcome kit when you first subscribe. $72 value. Go to shop3 — Listeners, welcome back from the break.

[18:02] And uh as I mentioned, we are going to dig into changing a belief system. I think this is a great topic and John had mentioned to Anthony and I and a a group of people not long ago about how he was changing his belief system about marketing which is John just tell us how you got there like what's your origin of this and why did you start thinking about it and yeah — yeah I'm I'm just watching um you know I I've got this amazing thing where my Dustin Williams who's an MD myself I'm a doctor of social work have written this amazing set of clinical protocols to reverse type 2 diabetes. And we are terrible at we I am terrible at marketing. Like I there are people out there who have just far inferior approaches to clinical efficiency or efficacy. Like we're really changing people's lives and it's it's like the best kept secret in the world. It's terrible. And what I realize is that I have a belief system around marketing like um and really it's about self-promotion even. I just I hear people that go through self-promotion and I've even had feedback where someone's like, "Hey, you were overconfident in what you said." And I don't want to I don't I never want to give misinformation. And so when someone's like, "You're overconfident you said." Or or you know, I took it to mean something other than what you said it meant. And like I don't ever want to mislead people. And what that's led me to is I don't want to actually speak from a loud podium lest someone get, you know, a misunderstanding. And I need to just kind of let go of that and make sure that I'm being really clean in my message. And that if people take something away from that that's not what I'm intending to be said and I'm not clearly saying, I can keep trying to clean up my message, but it shouldn't stop me from marketing.

[19:47] So this is, and by the way, if you're a listener, it may not be a marketing thing, right? It could just be imposttor syndrome or you're not smart enough, you're not strong enough, you're born in the wrong place. I mean, who knows what the belief system is, but you know, John, we've talked about beliefs a lot. I think most people go through life and probably don't really change any beliefs unless something, you know, horrible or traumatic happens in most cases. So, this is not a light lift. This is a this is a big lift. Um, what is the belief system that you would like to have? Like what what is the healthy belief that you're you're shooting to toward? — Yeah, I think that's I mean I that I'm in search of, right? Like that's the thing I'm in search of right now is like I'm in search of evidence. I'm And then the way that I do this is I act in a certain way and look for evidence that marketing can be done without um without, you know, any type of um and I'm still searching for this, Randy, so it's a great question, but I'm I'm trying to find a way that I can feel really resolved in that my marketing is doing great things for the world.

[20:54] What maybe I asked maybe I started with the wrong question. Let's go back to what is why don't you like marketing? — I don't know that I don't like it. I'm married to a great marketer. — okay. So, why don't you market or why is it a is it a fear? I — I don't think it's promotion. I I I hear people that are self-promotional and I it's just it's um I — I just when the self-promotion is misguided and uh I just don't I don't appreciate it. And I think what I do is I find the gaps. And I'll give you a great example of a person I think is great at marketing and is appropriately self-promotional, but I still uh sometimes my own inner stuff rails against it is Tony Robbins. I think Tony Robbins is a really good marketer. I like his stuff. Um and his stuff is really good in like for 90s something% of what he does. I'm making up the percentages, right? But like there's some part of it where he talks about his stuff treating depression and anxiety. And it's probably true that some of what he can do can treat some parts of depression and some types of anxiety, but I have a belief that a therapist should be involved in assessing that before trying something that's non- therapeutic in nature. And I think Tony Robbins would be the first to tell you he's non- therapeutic. And I do agree that his stuff can treat some subclinical and perhaps even some clinical depression and anxiety. I don't know the science behind it. I'm sure he has a lot of science there, but my brain goes straight to whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like when you deal with that, you could do damage. And when you could do damage, you should get a professional involved first. Like that's my belief Is [sighs] is this a almost like a a a fear of um like I I you know like I our amydala right and and and looking for fear and danger. Is that is that is that mostly where this is seated you think? I don't know about mostly.

[22:53] There's certainly a part of that. You know, my my first executive coaching experience I ever had, I had someone dive into clinically therapeutic issues and years later when I got into therapy, it was clear that that person had gone in and done something therapeutically damaging. Like there was no question about that. And so I became really sensitized to that. Like, you know, playing in areas where you don't belong is can be damaging to people. And I don't want to do damage. You know, like I I don't jump into an an operating room and do surgery. I've never been trained in surgery. You know, I don't prescribe medicine. I've never been trained in medicine. And so, I think, you know, I don't, you know, I don't want to harm people. And so, I think that some I wouldn't say most marketing. I would say that some marketing does harm and I don't want to do harm. — So, let me ask you another question. And I don't know if you've thought about this. I asked you before this if it was sales and marketing or just marketing and you said, "No, no, I'm good with sales." Wouldn't you agree that everything you just said about marketing also applies to sales? Like some sales people do the same thing? I — Yeah, without a doubt. I think this is about me, right? And I don't mean that like in a narcissistic way. I mean like when I'm one-on-one selling with someone, I can see how they're responding and if there's a miscommunication, I feel like I can clean it up.

[24:11] — Right. In marketing, I think it's sometimes it's one to many and it's difficult to clean it up. So you're saying if I'm understanding right if it's sales situation they say something and you get you can give them clarity on the spot. If it's marketing you send it out there somebody misunderstands and they are just believing something you would never even know that they're believing something that's inaccurate. — I I think I think that's a part of it and and I think that some part of the belief system I need to shift is like I can't own that. Like what I can own is putting out real information. what I can own is being uh factual and and and and not ambiguous and and then what somebody like someone receiving that that's on them to make sure that that they understand it correctly. But I again we're we're doing this live and in public. So we're going to get people like probably writing [laughter] and telling be like you're John you're seeing it wrong. Like I'll take that feedback like I'll listen to how because I'm just trying to do something that's good for the world uh without doing damage. And and you know, some people have said, "Well, hey, John, you're going to crack a few eggs if you want to make an omelette and you're going to upset some people." And I think, you know, if I upset some people because of, you know, them having a filter that receives it because of their stuff, I think I'm okay with that, maybe, but I but I don't want to be I don't want to be um I want to be thoughtful so that I'm doing the best I possibly can. But you also want to be effective, you know, that you know, so you you've got to let's let's let's dial it back a little bit and John, if I get this wrong, you know, jump in jump in. But [clears throat] this all kind of this this the beginning of this belief system change was caused by trauma. And the trauma was all the hard work you did on a particular business to get it off the ground, you know, put a message out there, create the uh persona for the business that you wanted didn't, you know, it didn't work in the sense of drawing. You built the better mouse trap and no one came to buy it. And so that was traumatic for you. Um, and you had to step back.

[26:22] — Was or is. — Go ahead. [laughter] Say that again. — I said was or is. — Is it was or is it? — And so so you but [snorts] you decided to change and and you and you and you and you took some steps uh that I'll recount a little bit. You know, you turned to me number one. We talked a lot, but you also got, you know, um external thirdparty help. You reached out. Now whether that third party help is going to work out or not still to be determined but you you went out and you sought um other viewpoints and I you know we're using marketing as the basis of belief change in this particular case but it it took a lot for you to put your ego aside and recognize that what all that work you did and you did a tremendous amount of work positioning the company and it's not getting you the results you need. And and any kind of beliefs that you have, no matter what it is in, it's going to it apparently it's going to take some kind of seinal event to get someone to consider the change and then go ahead with it, go ahead with beginning the change. And it's and you're in the middle of a journey. Um, and I don't think it's trivial to say that it's very very uncommon for people to change their belief system in anything. And so what I wanted to ask you was to touch on that from a you know with your with your how people should you know validate their existing belief and if it's not valid or they feel like it needs to be adjusted what are the steps they have to take to uh begin the journey because it is a — Yeah. I mean, one of the things we talk about with our patients is like a readiness for change, right? Like, are you committed to changing? And, you know, I can think of just a handful of major belief systems as an adult that I've rewired. And it has taken immense amounts of effort. And generally, it's been for me the motivating factor has been pain, right? And I think that there's all kinds of things that motivate people. So there's there's pain physically, pain emotionally, there's fear of something that happens in the future generally you know fear of pain uh happening in the future and then I think you can also change as a result of like overwhelming pleasure like people do make changes as a result of like desired pleasure or pleasure right now.

[29:03] Um and so those things all can can cause uh changes. I think for this big belief system change, the things in my life have been around just the u the emotional pain of not getting to where I want to go, you know. And so one of those one of those belief systems early in my adult life was around my relationship with money and my um my need for approval of other adults. Those are two things that I had to really address uh from a belief system perspective. And then you you asked about the process to get there. I took a cognitive behavioral approach which was you know offer myself a second point of view that was different than the existing point of view and then act as if the second point of view was true and then I started paying attention for evidence that it was indeed true and so that was the process right so choose a second belief system which I'm still working on clearly today for marketing you guys heard me proaricating about that like I'm not quite sure what it is and then once that happens starting to behave in a way that as if that were belief system were true. So I can find evidence that it is true and then I can then I can go back and adjust that belief system if it's not working quite the way that I want I can make adjustments to it and then keep going through that cycle of finding evidence to reinforce a new belief system over time. And I think in the spirit of our mission to create abundance, you know, you were you were locked into a belief system that was blocking you from creating that abundance um to achieve the goals. And I and for — probably still locked in there.

[30:42] — Yeah, I know. — Probably still am. — Well, tied to it, but at least you're you've loosened the reins a little bit and letting the horse run. Um D and you you have a direction uh you might shift it a little bit but I I think back to the the original kind of issue of of beliefs you know preventing abundance when when you're locked into a belief you know we could talk about you know politics money you know your your desire for pleasure and immediate gratification if you have certain beliefs around that and you're not constantly evaluating them. You're not taking advantage of the opportunity to create abundance because change, staying locked on anything for a significant period of time that isn't spiritual or, you know, tied to your religion and so forth is really blocking. It's like putting blinders on that horse I just referenced. You know, you're not seeing the opportunities that uh are around you. you're looking straight ahead and you're missing out on the tweaks that can help you get more out of life, whether it's more fitness, more fun, more money, more faith, more friends, more family, and so on. So, I think it's really um I think it's really something people should be thinking more about, not less about. You know, what are what am I what am I what what are my blinders? what what what what set of blinders do I have on around family, around uh money and so on and so forth.

[32:15] Well, core to me. Oh, sorry. I was gonna just make one comment about that. I've got people around me, Anthony. Every time I've made this type of change, I've had a a small group of people around me that I've been able to share this with in a really safe environment to get support in making those changes. And that even even this goound has been scary and vulnerable and hard and necessary. And so like I've, you know, and I'm really trying to lean into some people and trying to get people to lean in more with me. I mean, you and I have had a couple, you know, greater than 60 minute conversations around this. And you're not the only one. And so I think the next step for me, I just wrote down I might need to bring a couple of you together so that you guys can kind of hold me accountable as a group so I'm not like, you know, uh, making it easy on myself by telling you something and I'm telling somebody else something different or like I think I need to get a little bit of a group accountability here. So I just made a note of that. What one of the things that I keep thinking about is the I'd love to give credit to the proper person, but that it's much easier to convince people of something than it is to change their mind or convince them that they were lied to, right? And if you just look around you in society, this is so true.

[33:30] Uh people pick a political party for whatever reason and then usually they just stay there their whole life, right? or it look at all the things around food and medicine. Um, new science will come out that disproves something that we've thought and yet it just stays in society and even though people hear they've been lied to whether it's for 5 years or 50 years, they get the new evidence and they're just really really slow. Like this is this is hard. Like I I don't know that everybody knows it's hard but but it but it's really really hard to just you know I ask you what the new belief system is but I think unless you're aware of what's wrong on the back end it's really really hard to adopt that right um — yeah and Randy you just you said something I want to parse out here for a second for my own benefit but also maybe for the benefit of the listener. You talked about people being lied to and then that becomes arguable like was I lied to? who was I not lied to? You're arguing about a third person's intent. No one can really know. And all of that is noise. Like at the end of the day, if there's new data and the new data is good data, [clears throat] I I would like I believe like part of my identity is as a scientist, which means that I have strong convictions that are loosely held. When new science comes about, I want to be able to update my belief systems based on new evidence and I want to understand the strength or weakness of that new evidence. so that I can appropriately change my perspective. But I do think a lot of people when they make a decision they're it's very hard to uproot someone from a decision that's kind of well known well known and and I think it's important to um for for me this is now what's important to me is that I want to encourage people to have strong convictions loosely held so that when they get new like I was I went to a friend of mine and I said hey look my my recollection of our conversation was different than what you think it was and we happened to have a transcript from an AI recorder went back to the transcript and his rec recollection of the conversation was right on. mind was off and and so rather than getting really upset and bent out of shape about it, I took that data and reacted to the data versus my in this case incorrect recollection — and I and I think a lot of people aren't capable of doing that or I don't know about not capable but they just they don't because they do get so tied into an opinion and you know one of my little pet peeves is when I hear people criticizing a politician anytime they change anything right and these are the people making it it's Like if you get on an airplane and there's a flight plan and all of a sudden there's a massive storm in the middle the pilot has new information I would like them to change the flight plan and I feel the same way whether it's a politician a business leader or somebody in a family right so yeah I — yeah somebody says one — go ahead John — go ahead Anthony I was going to say if if someone says something to one person they say story A then they tell story B then they tell story A and they tell story like I can understand that frustration. But if someone said story A 20 years ago and in story B like I we use it in medicine all the time like sophonyas were we thought a really great drug to treat diabetes years ago and we now know that it actually makes the problem worse not better but that is you know on a relative basis newer science you know and and so that there's there's a difference between someone who changes their story in the minute to get what they want and someone who's using new information has changed their mind and I think sometimes we've got to be clear about which you know if it's the if it's changing your mind because there's new data. I think that deserves some — Was I going to say I was going to say um that I think beliefs are mostly that people aren't really aware. I mean they they obviously developed the belief but now it's buried.

[37:25] And if you, you know, if you really press someone on a touchy subject, right, John, you said it's really hard to get them to move up. Randy, you said it's really hard to get to move. One of the reasons is they don't believe that they believe that, right? And politics is a good example. There's fights every day about diet and this diet versus that diet, this methodology versus that methodology, this exercise regimen versus that one. People don't even realize they have a belief system, a belief system about a particular subject or thing. And that's the first part that you have to break through, right? Um John and I have been doing marketing forever. I'm not sure we ever thought of it as a belief system. We thought of it as this is got to go we got a million dollars we got to go spend it and get customers. Was it do we have a belief system around it? No. We had a methodology to spend that money. We had tactics that we were comfortable and familiar with. But was there a belief system that said you know the difference between marketing as advertising and marketing as value creation? Um there's a huge difference, [snorts] right? Uh we so that's where we're thinking that that's where we're thinking about spending our dollars now is how do we create value not how do we you know get in front of more people. So um it's just a it's just a I think it's a really difficult subject. Um, and particularly in personal lives when you know you're you're talking about personal things, money and politics and you know the way where you're going to live and you know who you want to be around. Those things are hard to coordinate between a among [snorts] a family or two people uh because so much of your beliefs are kind of buried underneath a bunch of other — Mhm. So — go ahead.

[39:28] — Go ahead, John. [snorts] — I was just gonna say I think that's, you know, in in for me in my in this marketing one like like there are people that in in the world that are willing to to say and do things in marketing that I'm not today willing to say or do around doing harm. And so that means I I have to, you know, resolve my kind of my ethics and my value system with also being able to be a great marketer around that. And so part of that is finding great marketers, you know, that do that, you know, I know many and understanding what their belief systems are and trying to emulate those because I I do believe there are lots of marketers that have very high ethics and very high value systems that don't do damage. I just need to go figure out what those belief systems are and create my own and then start that start that flywheel. It took me a couple years to get through the other times when I've kind of really rewritten these belief systems. So, I'm giving myself the grace to do it well and do it uh quickly but but not unreasonably fast. — My wife hates this phrase, but let's double click on something you said that I want to know the difference are the distinction between values and beliefs because I see them as very different things. your value of not I I see the value of not wanting to harm someone harm anyone — but what's the difference between values and beliefs to you — so a value system is generally something that you would rather walk away from everything else to maintain your value whereas a belief system is driving something some behavior that you may not be conscious of and certainly may not be in line with your values and one of the ones that I changed early in my life is that I had a belief system that money uh was the was the foundation for security in my life. And what I learned was that money and security were not synonymous at all. Um I I met lots of people who had lots of money and didn't have any type of emotional security or financial security. And I've met people that didn't have a lot of money that had economic security because they just didn't need a lot. And and they had lots of emotional security for reasons having nothing to do with money. And so I had conflated the two in a belief system that had nothing to do with my values.

[41:36] And so um now I think I'm I'm playing a little bit of a semantic game. And you could make an argument, well that was your value system. You were changing it. I don't think that's the important point. I think the important point is that like once you understand your values, those are things that are immovable and belief systems uh in my mind at least uh c can be movable. — Yeah. It's interesting. Interesting where the belief came from. Right. So when you talked about um believing that money was the route to security and and so forth I think we all many of us anyway of the you know 70s ' 80s and 90s you know were operating under the belief system that you know we had the American dream we wanted you need to amass as much of a fortune as po fortune as possible have a better life than the previous generation and that was going to lead to happiness and joy and Nirvana and whatever. And and we learned the hard way how untrue that was. But the belief system was I guess I'm not I'm going to use the word thrust upon us by the environment that we were born into.

[42:48] And I think that's something else you gota you've got to be conscious of — is that sometimes your belief system — marketers marketers often times are trying to influence our belief systems in ways that I think are you know sometimes not awesome and so now you're back into my core belief system that I don't want to do that to people because I do believe that you know a lot of a lot of marketers are influencing people in ways that are is um not a way that I would want to influence people. — It's I think I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you you feel it a lot of them are manipulative. Correct. — Yeah. And manipul the definition of manipulation that I've used for years is that when I have information you don't have that you could have and I use that information against you, that's the foundation of manipulation. So I heard that definition somewhere once. It makes sense to me. And so if a marketer knows about my more about my psychology and uses that against me in a way that is you know leveraged um I just I I find that to be not awesome.

[43:53] — Okay. So I want to go to the logic. And by the way I also want to acknowledge that the logic has almost nothing to do with solving this issue. Right? It's it really is a belief and it's things that are probably subconscious. But I do want to go to the logic because I'm sure listeners are thinking well this is if you have this great product right you have procina you can you can help people with diabetes which is a huge mission for you — well would you rather help millions of people or 10 people right and — obviously marketing is a big way of doing that but you know I mean and the question I guess I'm gonna ask you would you choose if you had Would you rather s serve a million people but have a h 100,000 of them feel pissed off or would you rather help a 100,000 people and have none of them pissed off? — Yeah, I think my question would be why why does that false dichotomy exist? Why can't I help 900,000 people and have bit none of them pissed off? Like how do I thread the needle?

[45:00] — I think that's impossible. That's my opinion. But I I I love the question by the way. I think I think it's an amazing question and and I'm being exaggerating where I say you have to piss off 100,000 but my my real point is — if if your goal is not to piss off anybody and you want to help millions of — I just I don't know that that it doesn't matter if you're Christ himself you piss off certain people right — I think that's a part of my belief system I got to get over Randy I think I think you just put your thumb on exactly the thing that I've got to wrestle with which is like how do I let people have enough agency to dislike my message and be okay with that. — Like that that has to be a part of any kind of adult functional relationship with someone in the professional sphere. And so that's part of what I'm wrestling with here. — Yeah. I mean, again, sticking with the logic, I think that if you if you are honest and you are telling people things that you think are for their benefit or you're letting them choose ultimately if it's for their benefit and nobody's forcing them to click or give you a credit card or whatever, right? And you're doing that in an honest, ethical, straightforward manner, it's it's the most anybody can ask, right? But if I'm also getting feedback that my level of certainty causes some people to overestimate what I'm saying, then I think I also have a responsibility to be very deliberate in choosing my words and my level of certainty so that I can kind of maintain my own standard of ethics.

[46:31] — I also I also think you can be super authentic and lean into people and tell them, hey, I've got a concern about this, so please understand, you know, whatever that is. And you can put a Dr. John disclaimer at the beginning, right? And and I think — not only that, it probably is more effective for marketing if you actually do tell them here's my concern about this, but you know, heartfelt. I want to change the world. Anyway, I'm into the logic, which is really — But I think that's but I think that's right. I think you've hit on a couple things here that are important for me to consider as I go through it. For sure. — John, you you've taken on one of the the the most difficult problems the the customer, if you will, the end end customer has been lied to, cheated, unfairly charged for things. I you you could come at this with the greatest in intent and you will come at it with the greatest intent because you have a skeptical audience. Someone in that audience isn't going to buy it and isn't going to like it. And I think you need to get over that. just get over that part.

[47:42] — No, I I agree with that. As long as I can look at what I said as being — So, let's go to what what have you tried? What's worked and and it could be in the past, right? You talked about changing a belief system earlier and and you know, giving yourself new evidence and having a new model and all that, but what are things and and we've talked about this, right? I know one of your big things is journaling, but what what other things have you done that have worked [laughter] and how do people change belief systems? — Yeah, I think for me it really is about journaling and then getting a a pe a a group of experts around me that can help. And so that group of experts includes people that are uh experts at the behavior change which I have I happen to work with which is great and then experts in the field marketing which I have to have around me which is great. And then having these conversations like I think it's I mean fair for the listener to hear like this conversation we're having together on a podcast. Isn't that different than when we would have in a group of our peers where we'd have this conversation? We would dive in and it's you know like I'm taking notes as we're going here and I'm being introspective. It's like crap. I got to put that into my journal. I got to think some more about that. I got to come back to these guys with some answers about how I'm going to actually think through this. And I expect that you guys are going to challenge me on this on Thursday when we get together again. Like I I so I have some accountability to that too. Um and so it's like who are the who are the you know 3 to 12 people in my life that can really help me make this shift and they're going to be willing to stick with me throughout the period that it's going to take because this is going to be a 12-month process for for a deeply rooted system like this for me. There are some people that I've helped change belief systems faster. There are some people that may have gone slower, but like I know myself well enough to know like this is going to be a process and my hope is it takes me through a hockey stick of change.

[49:30] — Have you considered using AI as a partner in this? — Oh, I do. [laughter] — Yeah, there's no doubt about that. — I was thinking AI — create a 30-day program for you to help you overcome it, right? I'd be curious what it would come up with. Yeah, I think there's a coaching part of it. I think there's a part of this that might be therapeutic, which I'd want to get, you know, the right people involved in that case. And so, um, I'm gonna I'm going to solve this one the right way for sure. Like, I'm I'm really committed to to making sure this is a long-term because I don't think I think this problem is showing up here, — but I don't think it's limited. I I don't think it I don't think this is the only place that's symptomatic in my — That's the pesky thing about beliefs, right? We have beliefs and they impact us all kinds of ways that we never But there's probably something about my need to feel certainty back to that need for approval where I feel a need to speak with a level of authority that people take as being more authority than is deserved. Uh which is balanced with the fact that I learn about a lot of things and I I do know a lot about a lot of things and so like how like so there's some other thing going on with me that I've got to dig into to get better at being, you know, the person I want to be.

[50:42] — John, this might be off. I'm just going to throw this out there, but in one of the early early podcast episodes, right, when it was just me and you, you told a story about when you were a kid with step step brothers and sisters — that told you things that were inaccurate. Is that where a lot of this stems from? — Yeah. I mean, it certainly is possible, right? because that was an environment where I very much wanted to be liked and I very much uh wasn't accepted in the way that I wanted and that that had a long-term effect effect as you know — and so um and and now I have varying relationships with with all those people right including including kids that I grew up with on the street and so um no I think I think that's a fair assessment and so um yeah — it's um this is what makes it so hard right I know myself in fighting with beliefs is part of it for me is just figuring out where that came from, right? And and like like you I I didn't choose it. I didn't you know when I have very much overcome my thought process about money and you know poor rich people being bad and all that and that was a long I mean that took me decades probably right but a lot of it is I had to go back and really understand where it came from acknowledge it wasn't a decision I made it just my subconscious like Anthony said earlier and it was there and then figuring out how to solve it was a whole a whole another problem on top of that So — Anthony, what I mean we we mentioned journaling. John mentioned his other workflow. What anything you've done to to create new beliefs?

[52:22] — You know, you know, my I I look at my life triated, right? It's a the youthful time in my life, the the um the career segment and then you know the entrepreneurial and you know the last season of my life here and you know I'm listening to people a lot more now than I ever did. I used to listen to a particular person in a particular moment to get to create a belief system in the context of what that person or that boss wanted me to have. Um, but now I've I've I find myself being far more open-minded to listen to a lot of different people and take, you know, criticism, if you will, or really want to understand, you know, where they're coming from and why and boy, that might be something I want to think about. So, I think with age, um, things change. I can and I can see that.

[53:32] I do a little bit of journaling, more more gratitude journaling than anything else. Um, but paying attention to what's going on around me and being really open-minded. It's a maturation process. And I and I can understand why I behaved the way I behaved back in the day, if you will. And, you know, I I counsel, you know, my the younger generation that I'm in contact with, mostly my my kids and my nieces and nephews. um by sending them particular articles or asking them questions and things like that hoping that they'll be more open-minded than I was or you know less myopic than I was. I think that was probably one of my biggest failures coming through the career path that I came through very myopic about my thinking. So it's more about maturation and opening my eyes and hopefully you know we can counsel people in a way that raises the consciousness of their particular belief and gives them an opportunity to assess it because a belief system can is an abundance blocker and we're all about creating abundance. So, you know, how do you leverage your belief either take advantage of it in a way that creates abundance or change it however radically or slightly in order to, you know, create abundance in a one of our five Fs. [snorts] So, I don't know if that answered your question, but that's how I feel. Okay.

[55:04] — Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking, you know, John, you're the one that turned me on to journaling and I definitely, you know, there the journal that you created has a I release and I choose and you know, sometimes I had to write the exact same thing for a month or two months. I think one time I wrote the exact same thing for almost a year, right? And I just kept writing. — It's four or five months for me when I'm changing the lease, maybe longer. So, — So, that's a long slow process. the I I have changed a couple belief systems quickly. Um, you know, I I've had some psychedelic experiences that changed it in a night. I mean, literally, I just I don't know how it rewires the brain. I don't understand it, but somehow it did. And the [clears throat] other thing I've noticed when I've gone to Tony Robbins events that I've had belief systems that have changed really, really quickly uh in whatever it is that he's doing. So, I mean, I I I've seen amazing things there, and I'm sure there's, you know, there's other things as well. So, um, all right, let's put a let's put a bow in this thing. Any any final thoughts? Any and in particular, John?

[56:13] I'm curious takeaways from you, Anthony. Did we lose an I'm going to have Anthony go first so you can think about that, but Anthony, did we lose you? — Okay, we lost Anthony, I think. So — yeah, for for me I think I I took five or six bullet points here about specific actions I want to take to kind of speed up the process of identification of where to move the belief system that I want to develop and then what actions I can take to reinforce it or vet that. And so that's you know um and then I took a couple things you know from you know my therapy 20 years ago that I want to go think through and see like is it worth me going back and opening that door to see if that's a part of what we're doing too. So that that was a couple of the really helpful things I took from today. — Cool. Yeah. For me, I think it's just it's it's it's thinking again about how hard it is, right? Cuz you know, I tend to be a just do it and go in and do a lot of things through sheer force of will. But even for somebody like me, that's a that's really challenging and I think it's really hard for most people to do. So — yeah, force of will is generally not a good answer in these things. That's you — I know for for me. Yeah.

[57:19] — Yeah. So for me it's just telling listeners like man if you're struggling with something take a week, take a month, take five years, but just work on it and realize it's it it is a big journey if you're brave enough to if you're brave enough to take it on. And John, I I appreciate you being brave enough not only to take this on and do this, but to be open about it, you know, in this setting. I think that's that's really great. — Scary, I got to admit. Little little scary, but that's all right. — Yeah. And hopefully it, you know, it's helping people, right? So yeah, it's — Listeners, uh, as always, we appreciate your support. Download support, download, tell your friends, whatever it is. Follow us on social media. Go to the website talesofabundance.com. And everybody, have an abundant day. — Thanks, Randy. Listen and subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcast. Click follow for more content like this or go to talesofabundance.com to join our community and get free tools.