Can Money Buy Happiness? 8 Domains With Steven Fearing

Show notes

Can Money Buy Happiness? Steven Fearing on the Eight Domains of Happiness

Can money buy happiness? Psychologist Steven Fearing says material sufficiency is one piece of a bigger picture. He joins Randy Lorensen and Dr. John Oberg to walk through his eight domains of happiness, drawing on positive psychology and evolutionary psychology.

Steven has lived in Austin for about 45 years, and his interest in happiness goes back to a humanistic psychology program designed by a colleague of Abraham Maslow. He talks about Martin Seligman and learned optimism, how a painful breakup pushed him toward meaning and post-traumatic growth, and why happiness tends to arrive when you stop chasing it.

From there the conversation moves through the domains: positive emotions about the past, present and future; optimistic thinking and our pull toward bad news; engagement and flow; relationships; meaning; accomplishment and the trap of comparison; brain and body health; and material sufficiency, which he says Seligman's model left out.

They finish with how to balance the domains, why modern life is a mismatch for minds built for small communities, and two simple practices: savor one thing every day, and respond well when someone shares good news.

The Eight Domains of Happiness, and Where Money Fits

What you'll discover:

Why material sufficiency belongs in a model of happiness, and why it isn't the whole story
Positive emotions, optimistic thinking and our bias toward bad news
Flow: what being "in the zone" does for a good life
Relationships, meaning and accomplishment, and how comparison gets in the way
Evolutionary mismatch: why modern life can work against happiness
Two daily habits: savoring, and responding well to good news

This episode is for educational purposes only and isn't medical advice.

Timestamps

[00:00] Welcome Steven Fearing: the eight domains of happiness
[01:37] His background, and humanistic psychology
[02:49] Martin Seligman and learned optimism
[04:02] A breakup, and post-traumatic growth
[04:50] Savoring, and why happiness is paradoxical
[05:39] Maslow's hierarchy
[06:24] Evolutionary psychology and happiness
[08:41] Material sufficiency: what Seligman left out
[12:11] Positive emotions: past, present and future
[15:41] Thomas Jefferson and the pursuit of happiness
[17:23] Optimistic thinking
[19:05] Our bias toward bad news
[20:50] Engagement and flow
[26:06] Relationships
[27:51] What the research says about happiness
[29:36] Finding small groups of friends
[31:20] Meaning
[36:28] Accomplishment
[39:58] The trap of comparison
[43:26] Brain and body health
[45:12] Mind-body regulation: meditation and prayer
[46:56] Experiences over things
[50:24] A family question
[52:10] Being satisfied with what you have
[53:52] Balancing the domains
[55:35] Evolutionary mismatch and modern life
[57:21] Reconnecting community
[59:05] Savor one thing every day
[1:00:52] How to respond to good news
[1:02:38] Wrap-up

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About Steven Fearing

Steven Fearing has lived in Austin, Texas, for about 45 years. He studies happiness from the perspective of positive psychology and evolutionary psychology, and organizes his work around eight domains of happiness.

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Related episodes

Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect some spelling errors in names and terms.

[00:02] Tales of Abundance. Why settle for less? Today we have special guest Steven Fearing on talking about happiness. And this is a really interesting topic because in talking about abundance, I feel like happiness is the whole purpose of going after abundance. And it's sort of the bow that ties the five Fs together. There's so many threads in here that go back to things we've talked about on previous episodes. And in particular, I think you're going to like his eight specific domains of happiness. I'll be curious which one stands out the most to you. For me, it was flow or being in the zone and then just constantly going back to gratitude. But let us know, let us know in the comments which one appeals to you the most. pleasure of having Steven Fearing in and uh we're going to talk about happiness and more specifically his eight domains of happiness. And as we were preparing for this, I really thought about it. You know, John, we we're tales of abundance. Why settle for less? We talk about the five Fs, right? Friends, family, fun, fitness, finance, and all those things.

[01:07] Well, happiness is sort of the bow that ties it all together because a lot of the reason we go after those is to live a better life and hopefully have a better life with more joy. So, I'm excited about this conversation. Steven, welcome. — Thank you, Randy. I appreciate that. — John, it's nice to meet you. — Yeah, nice to meet you as well. I I get I'm I'm excited because I think happiness [clears throat] is probably really well understood but also really misunderstood and I think that's what we're going to dive into today is just you know talking about what is happiness which is fun. — So give us we're not going to go deep on the background but just just give us a quick background. You've been in Austin, Texas 45 years and I know you you know spent some time at UT and everything else but just how did Steven get from you know we whittle to to [snorts] here today. Just give us the the reader digest I think. — Okay. Um well I think it's appropriate on this topic to start with where I got my master's degree which was at a humanistic psychology program a special program that was um designed by a colleague of Abraham Maslo's. So uh my inquiry into happiness really starts with a bedrock interest and inquiry into human potential and Maslo's [clears throat] hierarchy of needs tracks pretty much the happiness domains and it's really in um that time in my life really at graduate school and now that's like 50 years ago uh before I got to Austin that I began to to have perhaps happiness on the radar as a function of human potential.

[02:37] Um I studied the work of Martin Seligman later in the 80s here in Austin. Uh I started I was doing training and development and I delivered a training on the work of Martin Seligman on learned optimism and uh he is considered the father of pos of uh positive psychology certainly is all over the happiness research with his um learned optimism book and his book authentic authentic happiness. And the interesting thing to know about Seligman which relates to who I am is that and to happiness in general is that Seligman was not a happy guy really. He was — defensive pessimist and this is something to know is that you study happiness perhaps uh as in many things in life is something you're trying to find, pursue, discover because it doesn't feel present. uh happy people play the flute, build cities, raise children, uh and engage in the pleasurable activities of life in general. They don't become uh so focused on the study of but for me I needed to do that and um part of this relates to the an event in my life um back in 2012 where I I had a relationship that uh ended. It was a a severe breakup for me and it moved me into this need to discover meaning, purpose and u what we would call in the in the literature post-traumatic growth and that is one of the doorways into happiness from setback to comeback. you you try to discover how to live a meaningful life and a life with some joy um after you've been pretty much flattened on the ground. Um but my life is pretty much uh encapsulated in a way in a quote by EB White and that is uh I arise in the morning torn between a desire to save the world and a desire to savor the world. that makes it hard to plan the day.

[04:50] — Uh and well, savoring became an important part of uh my happiness quest andor practice. So, um happiness um is elusive and paradoxical. Um and if you'll indulge me, one more quote by Theo. Uh happiness is like a butterfly. The more you chase it, the more it will elude you. But if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder. — So funny, Randy, we talked about that just the other day. I said, you know, happiness chased after doesn't get found, but when you live your life well, you find it. That's right. Yeah, that's so okay. You you've already covered a couple things that I think for the the non, you know, uh psychological scientists in the room may not kind of get all the way there. So Maslaw's hierarchy of needs talked about by lots of people at the fundamental level the base of the triangle is just what — security needs. — Or are or the body survival needs. — Yeah. Food, water, shelter. — Yeah. And then at the highest level of that pyramid.

[05:53] — Well, you have self-actualization. But you move through belong esteem needs. — Uh oh, excuse me. Belonging, esteem, and then self-actualization. All of those are in the trajectory of happiness. — Yeah. And when you talk about like evolution and psychology, you could talk about like where people start on that scale. Like you know, most people start at the base of it, but there's some arguments that like that's happening. People are starting higher up on that, — right? Um it is not a um necessarily a developmental progression, right? It's it's a parallel activity. And in the mention of evolutionary psychology, which is really where my focus has been seriously for the last few years, um evolutionary psychologist, one in particular out in New Mexico has done a redo has redone Maslo's hierarchy and self-actualization pretty much got u removed and um mate selection and parenting became that is preparing the next generation became the highest — expression of human potential according to this particular take and redo a Maslo's hierarchy.

[06:59] — Probably some evolutionary biologists who would really agree with that too, which is that that sounds like kind of out of the world of evolutionary — right? And that's that's a a certainly a a sister discipline for evolutionary — of course. — But it's I also want to mention that on that way of thinking, happiness is in fact a meta theory. It's it is a uh cluster of disciplines from individual depth psychology, relationship psychology, social psychology, neuroscience, cognition and cognitive psychotherapy, mind body regulation. — Now you talked about positive psychology too. So I mean and that term gets thrown around a lot. What's positive Well, positive psychology is really just um a a new name that probably was invented by Seligman because he was he thought happiness was too associated with the idea of cheerfulness. And Seligman knew that wasn't correct. In fact, he fought with his el his publisher not to name his book authentic happiness happiness because he he was aware of of the other deeper sources of happiness. So positive became more of a concept of of overall uh well-being. Now interestingly enough I I redid Seligman's um five domains and Seligman left out the body. He he left out body — and all of the um fertile ground of how our uh neurochemistry relates to happiness. That was not in his model.

[08:43] And um he also left out material sufficiency. He left out money. And I'm not sure why he did. and uh um subsequent authors in happiness certainly included it. And because of my particular history, it was very important to me because um the money um the lack of money as it relates to uh operating as a man in America, especially in mate selection, became apparently um um severe in its impact. — And that's in some ways that's the trigger point for my study of evolutionary psychology. I've included money and material sufficiency into the eight domains. Um, but it comes it comes uh Seligman's original work, but it's it's a meta theory. So, — this is so cool. Like there's so many places I want to dive in. I think maybe we should just start with like what are the eight domains, Randy? Like like there's so I have so many questions already. Yeah, I do I do want to share with the listeners and in preparing for this and going back and forth with Steven on email, he sent a quote that I think is is really I think I think this quote's great. So, this is what he put in the email. Um, happiness broadly speaking does not propagate the species, so nature does not select for it.

[10:11] — And I I that that really spoke to me. I — well, it really spoke to me when I read it because I I mean I I already believed that. But that quote is from Sonia Luba who wrote the how of happiness definitely in the happiness domain of — and she goes into this arena of of little bit of an evolutionary perspective when she's talking about the happiness of couples — which is a very much an interest in mine and so she she understands a little bit of mate selection and and the um uh how economics and and the erotic combined. But that quote actually came from a happiness researcher, not an evolutionary psychologist. Uh but um it's it's an it's a comment in a quote that leads down that a trail that's a whole another as I said a whole another — right? Okay. Well, let's as John said, let's jump into them. What's there? There there's eight. So what what's number one — in the — Are these in order in the domain of — Are they in order or are they any order?

[11:13] — No, they're not they're not in order. — Okay. Um and so they don't they are all of these domains uh and and other ways of describing the components of happiness are virtuous birectional feedback loops. — They're like like facets of a prism if you will. — Yes. Okay. The lenses you look through, — Okay. So but but positive emotions is important because when we think about one of the essential elements of um positive emotions and mood in the present is one of those elements. Now all emotions are felt in the present but uh also a deeper feeling of meaning and purpose which tends to look in the in the past is also the present experience of happiness as well as a positive outlook on the future where you have hope um and certain kind of uh expectancy. But the positive emotions of looking towards the past would be satisfaction and contentment. Um and this is where the happiness research went certainly uh uh from Seligman to look at what is satisfaction, what is contentment but present emotions of joy, pleasure, amusement, flow, awe, elevation which I like to talk about and certainly — because gratitude is in fact the mother emotion uh of happiness. It comes up in all almost in all the domains. Um we talk about the positive emotions of optimism and hope. So that's what's in — that's the first domain positive And so, so for someone who's thinking about, you know, wanting more happiness, it's like, so is it basically how do I foster positive emotions then? Is that is that the the thought process?

[13:15] — Yes. But I think it's best to start um I mean psychologists have always tried to get decide where to enter the system, the body, the thinking, the emotional realm. And different therapists do do it — Sure. And I believe that um uh thinking and the body and um the other one I just I lost track of. Um that all of those are uh they produce positive emotions as an outcome. — Yeah. Yeah. — So, think about positive emotions as the um in some ways a product of the other working on um the other um dimensions. And um it's sort of like that butterfly. You get you get the butterfly if you're if you're doing the other things. — Got it. So, if I practice being thankful for something or somebody, then I'm gonna that I'm gonna I'm going to give space for the butterfly to land on my shoulder.

[14:22] — That's right. — Uh that's cool. And we can get into um you know the list of valitional activities and pro-social behaviors and and also just a a um habit u favorite habit list uh before we're done and you'll see how that all comes about. Cool. So um I I want to throw a a bone in for two emotions that get little attention. That is awe and elevation. And um awe is the experience of being in the presence of something that's bigger than human scale that's vast and um maybe it's outside of our our five senses in in terms of understanding it. Uh and but it it allows you to experience yourself as a larger whole and it definitely increases um altruism and kindness and it will certainly deliver gratitude and um looking for everyday awe is one of the kind of habits and I could give examples of that. I've experienced a lot of awe um in my daily life certainly even on a golf course. But the other one is elevation. This is rising on the vertical dimension and this was offered up by Jonathan height a psychologist in New York in his studies of Thomas Jefferson when when he was at the University of Virginia and this this elevation was in Jefferson's writings when you see people in in faith communities doing this this is connecting with elevation this is rising up on the vertical plane — physical elevation — yeah I mean it's experienced um probably experienced by the vagus nerve and the release of oxytocin. It opens up trust and openness. It's a — uh in the chest and it creates a a cascade of a positive emotion. Um, and it's really good for you. And I just want to mention this because um, it's not commonly even named as an emotion, but um, is definitely um, one that we should seek uh, and is part of the way to experience um, good feelings in the present moment. Do you have tips for somebody that I'm talking, you know, some people we all know are everything's positive, right? The the the cup's full or half full. The cup's half full person. What would your tips be for those people to have more positive — People that see the cup is half full.

[17:01] — Yeah. Or people that are just generally negative, right? People — Oh, they see people that cup is not half — Yeah. They're they're And they see — cup's all the way full, Randy. It's got water and it's got air. It's all the way — Thanks, Mr. Helper. [laughter] All right. Uh, but so, so the people that generally have the opposite of that, have negative emotions and they want they want to change it. What would what would your tips be? What would you — Okay. So, this gets into the second domain of optimistic thinking. Okay. — There's five facets there. Um, but one of the third the third facet uh we would call see the good. That's a cup is half full. And this takes practice and focus and attention. And um one of the practices that I would recommend that I do is to look for the silver lining in in the literature is called a silver lining factual. That is the blessing in disguise. The sweet lemon. So um something happens to you that that feels bad in the moment. Well, look for the blessing in disguise. And it doesn't normally always come at the moment like a detective looking for cues or clues.

[18:06] Later you say, "Oh, now now I have this because that happened." That's a blessing in And when you practice that, you're going to increase gratitude. And and you're going to start to notice more how there are good things out there, that the cup is looking more uh full more full all the time. The other um reframe um that happens um in looking at present and past events within this domain is um understanding that we we also have a s a silver lining counterfactual and that is basically it could have been worse. This is always available. you we look at our environment and living in a third in this first world country and you think about um other nations other possibilities. Oh my gosh. I mean it's it's readily available. You have no trouble just reading the newspaper, listening to the news and and seeing what tragedies we're dealing with right now. So in your life it could be worse.

[19:15] And if you are able to note that and make note of that and when an event happens that it seems like the the cup is not full, well, you can get some gratitude out of that. So those are um thinking uh practices that I I recommend. Um yeah, we is here's a quote. We're wired for bad weather. We're wired to notice headwinds, but not the tailwinds that assist us. — It's true. — And that's a survival mechanism to notice the headwinds. But seeing a cup half full is noticing the tailwinds. in the sense of if you don't, you're going to get pulled you're going to get pulled back into the headwinds and seeing the world as problems. um to solve. Um and I want to say that one of the takeaways here is that this gratitude works because fear and appreciation cannot be processed by the brain at the very same moment.

[20:32] At the moment you're deep into gratitude, fear has to kind of take a backseat. And that's why It's important to do that. Now, I used to have a kind of a cynical or polyianish view of the of of gratitude work. Uh and then I started to look at the neuroscience of it and the practice of it. But it still requires active focus. And that's that's why one of the practices I I started was a a what went well journal. It's kind of like a gratitude journal, but you — Yeah. So, what went well today? that's great. And so, and so gratitude so far has threaded through the first domain and the second domain. Are we going to see gratitude again in the third domain? — Well, let's see if it shows up everywhere. Yeah. Um, gratitude doesn't show up in engagement and flow because when you are using a signature strength or talent at the edge of your ability and skill being in the zone, if you will, you lose you lose sense of self.

[21:42] There is in in when you're engagement and flow, you're not really experiencing any emotion. Now, you may have get gratitude after the fact. Um, — this is like a runner's high like when you're just in that moment and you're just kind of going and there's no I think the Japanese call it the no mushin like the no-mindedness. Yes. Yeah. — Right. So, uh, you know, this is very interesting um, domain to study in the work by a guy who's hard to say. Check me high uh, is the author of the book flow. But we see that by athletes being in the zone. And I thought about Randy in prompt one of your questions to me. when have I been in the zone? And I I thought about when I was uh I was a high school athlete. I was a quarterback and a basketball player, but I was most in the zone as a high school shortstop. And I was really uh good for my age. In that position, you have to be aware of like 10 things that can happen. Then you let it all go.

[22:46] And then when that ball comes to you, it's all instinct. sense of self. You you lose a sense of self. Your body is planting. The throw is happening. Um that's being in the zone. Another experience I had in my professional work as a a group facilitator, which was really my master skill uh throughout my career uh for the state of Texas. Um and as a facilitator, you have to be aware of sort of five dimensions of activity in the room at once. I could go into those, but it's kind of getting into the weeds. But but when you are present, really present with the group and you know where all five of those facets are happening, it you're you're almost unconscious in the zone of what to do next with that group. Uh what question to ask, what inquiry to make. Um and um it's not necessarily the experience of joy in a moment, but afterward it's exhilarating to know you're in the zone because when you're in the zone like that, you are at the edge of your of your ability and talent. And that's a a very important theme in happiness is to pursue the potential within you.

[24:06] Yeah. It's I I thought of this initially like you said from sports, right? And and similar background and I just think back the times for the most part that I could I guess willingly go into the zone is if the game was on the line for some for some reason I went to another place and my performance went up and I I think I was definitely in the zone. But there were other little there'd be a performance here. I remember one time playing basketball, I just shot and shot and shot and shot shots that were probably and they just all went in, right? And it was a league game and it was not great competition, but but I was never able to quite ever repeat that feeling. And in writing my book, I think we talked about this over coffee a couple weeks ago, I think I went to the zone much more easily. There would be Saturdays where I would get up in the morning and I would start writing my book and all of a sudden 10 12 hours would pass and I was still writing and I just kind of — completely lost track. — Lost himself. — I I think that it's interesting. I mean positive emotion I think you're it's it's possible to practice in the moment as you get better at it. And the same with the second one which is optimistic thinking like you can practice in the moment. You can't really practice the zone in the moment. My experience with the zone for myself and others is there might be hours and hours and or days and day weeks weeks thousands of hours of practice that get you to learn how to get into the zone, — It's a little bit different than the first two dos.

[25:31] — It is I mean 10,000 hours of of practice you see as I used when I was doing this training uh shots of Michael Jordan obviously in his own. — But how many hundreds and hundreds of hours of practice led to the to the the possibility of him being in his own? So, this one might be a little harder than the first two. Do they keep getting harder or do they get easier again? — I think they get easier. — Okay, good. What's number So, number Dan Seagull said, "Relationships are just are not just the icing on the cake for a well-lived life. Relationships are the cake." — I thought you said they get easier. about it is um the uh the source of uh key to happiness is sitting right next to you, John. — So, we are an ultraocial species. We are crafted and designed to be with other people, to be in a tribe, and we're designed to be in relationship. We cannot exist in isolation. I like I like from South Africa the word unbutu.

[26:47] I cannot be a person without you. In other words, I I need another person in order to even experience being a human — Our current surgeon general says that loneliness is the largest epidemic of this time. It is. And for someone speaking in the era of a pandemic, that says something. — Yeah. So, um we can't exist in in isolation. And there's a there's a whole um neurobiology of of relationship and you could get into that. You can talk about um mirror neurons and mimicry and the contagion effect of humans in relationship. Um and you can you can track it back to um our to attachment theory and our relationship to our our parents especially our mother and how important that is. But relationships are everything for happiness and it is central to the pursuit of happiness. Um one of the u ways in which happiness is thought of is is uh if you want happiness [clears throat] live in a wealthy country.

[27:57] Uh get married, get religion. But certainly getting married which is just you know maybe the pinnacle of relationship development is in the mix. This is an aggregate data of what produces happiness. Being in good relationship is essential. Uh and friendship is certainly part of that. Um having a lifelong com uh uh is blissful um for some and absolutely a road to happiness. Um, my brother [clears throat] got lucky, my younger brother got lucky, married his high school sweetheart, and they've been blissfully happy for over 40 years. And then, but of course, you know, uh, the the world of romance and relationship is also fraught with uh, conflict, tension, and pain. But if you get it right, it is an a tremendous source of happiness. Steven, when you and I were talking previously, you mentioned like you I think you'd listened to a previous episode and not just us but in general when people talk about family, they talk about married couples and kids and you had perspective on that from a single person. Right. Right. And that family is still important. Do you want to address that? Just kind of your thoughts about family from people that aren't married or don't have kids.

[29:22] — Yeah, I answered that question. I was looking to see what my words were. um essentially for the single person um their nucle nuclear family will remain if they're if they're alive. Um but they especially need to find small groups of friends and that share an interest. Uh single people must engage and take action to find their tribes. Um and the research shows that it's pretty essential for even a single person to have at least one close friend. Um in fact having a close friend is more important than having secondary friends that are are on the periphery. So single people have to take um action to find their tribe and and to create friendships um and they have to get off the couch in other words um in order to combat u sense of isolation being isolated. Um so which is not to say that that people in in uh uh nuclear families and marriages can at times feel uh isolated or unseen. But single people have to maybe take a bigger uh effort to craft um families out of their peer network.

[30:48] — It's funny. It's super intuitive when you hear it. I wouldn't have said that beforehand, but it's super like once you say it out loud, it's like, "Oh, that makes so much sense, right?" That that uh Yeah, make the effort. — All right, let's move to let's move to number five. Meaning. What What is meaning? Define me. Let's just start by defining it. Meaning is is belonging to something larger than yourself. Um, it's pursuing your purpose and potential, your self-concordant goals, knowing that it is within you to do. Um, it could be and often is the experience of the sacred dimension. Being aware of your connection, again, back to that elevation, being connected to uh how you're connected to all of life, to your sense of the divine. Um, also being connected to your own hero's journey, which you know comes from Joseph Campbell and um, it's it's it's a cousin to the post-traumatic growth idea. Your hero's journey means that you have to overcome certain obstacles and challenges. But that's where meaning is created. Um when I taught meaning in my class, I use a lot of the [cough] life of Abraham Lincoln uh Abraham Lincoln and um Lincoln suffered a massive first of all he had like um chronic melancholia and he had deaths of his sister and deaths of his parents and the loss of of a partner. He went through a lot of um depression, but he found his purpose in getting bringing us through um reuniting the Union and um putting his his um uh his stamp on the idea of the abolition of slavery. it that's that was meaning for Lincoln that — for the average person though that's like a I mean I think big but that's pretty big [laughter] like how do I grab onto that if I'm just not seeing myself as Abraham Lincoln — I don't know about the listener but I I have a hard time seeing myself that big well it it starts with you uh trying to connect with um what does seem to be your highest as potential. What do you experience as your ideal self? What is a purpose that seems to be in alignment with who you are? And then start to take uh action uh toward that purpose.

[33:40] — I mean, so just to go back to your earlier comments, that could mean I want to be a great dad or I want to be a great spouse or I want to be, you know, a member of the small community in the area that I'm living. It doesn't have to be I'm going to end, you know, slavery for the world. it's going to be or for the US it can be something — absolutely not and remember um one of the key uh we know the literature shows this the single most uh powerful way to increase momentary happiness is an act of kindness and and service to somebody — if you want a hit of dopamine and happiness you [laughter] as um was said by Um what do I want to say? Yeah, Bob Dylan, you got to serve somebody. — So um you can find someone to serve and and an act of kindness and gratitude or service is always available in the domains in which you operate. It doesn't have to be a huge thing. So you you meaning is something you create.

[34:45] — Anybody can do it any time with little things, right? Like that that's okay. So that's that's it gives me some hope. Well, John, I'm I'm thinking about a few years ago, you and I and mutual friends went and toured Community First Village, — Yeah, that was great. — And so, we have Alan Graham who is trying to solve the homeless homeless — homelessness. We got here. — Yeah. I don't know why I can't say it. In Austin, Texas, right? And doing a fantastic job. Well, most people aren't going to go to that level. But then we there's other people that go live there in the community. That's a little bit commitment. the woman that gave us a tour, I do not remember her name, but she was an angel on earth that goes there and worked in that. But then other people just contribute on a smaller scale and some people give them a sandwich or you know, everybody's got like even that problem. I just think I'm thinking about it. — I guess there's different layers or different levels of commitment. — Yeah, that's that's meaning making that is indeed would work. I mean, my brain went to like So, a bunch of my neighbors decided they wanted to clean up the neighborhood recently and got a bunch of trash bags and a bunch of sticks and gloves and went out and just cleaned up the neighborhood. And so, the I think what I'm hearing is that counts. Like, — If you're just going to go out and like grab a bunch of people and just like, you know, clean up some trash on the highway or in your neighborhood, like it doesn't have to be a grand gesture.

[36:05] meaning can be momentary uh and small and still have great great impact on — Absolutely. And the fact that you did that with a group just amplifies because — this synergizes and and creates more sense of meaning for you in the collaboration with another human being. — Yeah. You're I mean you're tying meaning and relationships into the same thing. It's great. — Which ties into accomplishment, right? Which is like the the next one. So now now you've now you've done something with a community with larger meaning and you've accomplished something. — Yes. And accomplishment um you know there's the guys and maybe you've heard them in KUT in Austin. Um the um two men on on their head. I think Bob Duke says is my addiction. And um it used to I guess in some ways it used to be mine but I I need to to provide a good caveat here because it's really not about the product. It is indeed about the process and the progress. So and there's a thing in in in the research called the progress principle. It's moving in the direction even a tiny bit towards something that is you want to get done. Um and it's your sense of agency and eternal locus of control when you do that and your own experience of competency and effectiveness. It is not about how big is the accomplishment.

[37:39] Uh I mean it's really about the journey. So accomplishment uh it's sort of analogous to happiness in general. It's not the end point. It's really about a process and progress toward um the uh achievement. Now I I have a little bit of a uh gender or sex bias on this one. I think that uh and this is crossing over a little bit into evolutionary psychology and that is for men with a directive uh energy out. It's not just expected perhaps but also provides more nourishment to accomplish. accomplishment for a man uh is perhaps in some ways even more essential or the progress toward. — So help me here. How come I've met so many people that are so well accomplished that are so unhappy? particular sacrifices they've made in — Like the other domains have so hurt — they have probably sacrificed — Got it.

[38:45] uh or they could be in uh on the hadonic treadmill. They're in a rat race mentality or they've they've adapted. We we all have uh adaptation what's called hydanic hydonic adaptation to whatever level we achieve and then we just went more and more and more. Um and some people get caught into that. It's — like pleasure can lead me away from long-term happiness or even short-term happiness it sounds like. — Yes, totally. I mean this is this is described interesting in the literature about the different kinds of treadmill. Um but that's how people get off track and they become perhaps more uh into the material reward and lose track of the um sense of inner purpose or relationship along the uh uh progress toward or being on that treadmill. another thing. — So I can measure money but I can't measure the intrinsic feeling. Therefore I don't value it as — we need we need to also look at um the uh problem of sociometric comparison.

[39:52] Comparison is the thief of joy — and when people are in an accomplishment mode on a treadmill um they are sometimes operating out of how it compares to others. Now, interestingly enough, we know from the literature, and this is kind of bleeding into material sufficiency. It's not about the total amount of money you have. It is the social sociometric comparison of how much money you have relative to the people you you see as your peers. um and they've done some interesting research around this that people would rather choose to have more money than a designated neighbor than um uh than necessarily having them u a lot of money in general. And so that's that's a comparison mode and I think um people can get off track in terms of accomplishment also because of of that um track of comparison. Um — so so the comparison is not healthy. No. — Yeah. It's it's I think I mentioned this on an episode not long ago, but you know, I had a conversation a while back with with a gentleman that was a billionaire and you know, I'm guessing he's a couple billion, right? I mean, can do anything he ever wants and he was like, I feel so poor and I feel like such a lo because he hangs around with people that are have tens of billions or he, you know, he he runs in that circle and it's like, wow, right? Like 99.999 whatever%. That's a caricature of this principle I'm speaking of. That's really sad, you know.

[41:25] — it really is. And he I mean I would consider him pretty happy, but he also just there's like this — he feels like he's the loser in the — Yeah. It's also comparison along one particular dimension. It would seem probably um to total wealth or or social status. And of course, a happy life, a life well-lived is includes all these dimensions. M um certainly meaning and relationship have to be in the mix no matter how much money you have. Um so — and do you I guess we'll get into this material sufficiency. I'll come back to the question. I'm I'm curious to know more about that. So I'll wait until we get there. Next one's body. — Well, let's John, let's take a break. Let's uh let's take a break and when we come back, we'll do uh number seven and eight and then we'll have some follow-up — I love it. I can't wait. I'm I'm excited to to get through and put it all — Yeah. All right, listeners, we'll be right back. Listeners, welcome back to Tales of Abundance, Why Settle for Less? We're still here with Steven Fearing talking about the eight domains of happiness. So, we left off on number six and we're moving to number seven. So, tell us about number seven. So, number seven is your source of energy, your Number seven is your um metabolic health. Number seven is all your organ systems. Num number seven is your neurotransmitter and hormonal Number seven includes how you generate uh endorphins uh through exercise, fitness, mind body regulation, nutrition. This is the source of the energy that allows you to pursue the other domains. [snorts] And uh it um it's one of my favorites because it's it's how I change state so to speak. I go to the gym. I create a a sacred time to just work on my body and that's that's when I actually probably the most positive is just after a workout. So, and the body um relates to all the other dimensions in the um pie if you will of of how u happiness was originally constructed. It's called the 40% solution. 40% was valitional activity, 10% was circumstance and 50% was include included in genetics because of twin studies. And it's it's in that that 50% category that I've really included all of the body stuff. Um parathetically I think the circumstances are actually more than 10% and valitional activity is probably uh more than 40 but um they are again virtuous selfinacting loops. each one interacts with one another including uh an epigenetic effect on gene regulation from valitional activity uh and even circumstance. So these things are always feeding back on one another. But um um you want to do a reset or try to be happier, go to the breath.

[44:44] Get quiet and go to the breath. Tell tell listen listeners more what what what do you mean by go to the — Well, it's because of the breath that you uh can uh slow down the heart rate. You can clear the mind and you can um uh see thoughts as just moving across a screen and not um necessarily a threat to you or dominating who you are. It is a way and this is essentially mind bo mind body regulation or meditation could be prayer where you you center yourself in what seems to be in essential inside of you and there's nothing more essential than the inb breath and the outreath and it it regulates um all of your organ systems and calms calms the — right it's great — yeah there's my friends at Strosi Institute have a whole Institute of Psychology on Somatics which is the body. I know very little about it but it's just such a and I'd say relatively speaking newer science right of when you talk about somatics and the body movements and — well it it is but um I I was tuned into this even from my work in humanistic psychology. I was sort of on the cutting cut cutting edge of mind body regulation studying all that sematic stuff um and all of the different body works that came out of that period of time 50 years ago that are just taken for granted now — and it was really considered kooky at the time right it was it was very like — yoga massage acupuncture all of that came out of the mind mind body explosion back in the late 70s and early and early — and and you don't need to be like the picture of perfect health to get started. That's the cool part about this. Like breathing like everybody can do that, — Yeah. Love that. Okay. Number eight. I want to dive in here. This is exciting.

[46:40] Material s like this one was a little surprising to me. And then that because you there's been these studies over the last 10 years that like you know when you get beyond $80,000 I think it is there's you know diminishing returns for for economic benefit toward happiness. Uh and experiences are more important than material things. But what you're saying, I think what you're saying here, there really is some reality to material sufficiency though for happiness. Like there's a there's a point where it can negatively impact and a point a part where you can positively impact. — This is a tricky one indeed. And um yeah, the the earlier research was like a 75,000. — Um and and it has been um revised upward and it used to be believed that and asserted that there was no appreciable level of happiness increase. uh after a certain amount of income or wealth um after a sufficient freedom from poverty. Uh but those those studies were mostly done on current mood. No amount of money can predict momentary uh or cheerfulness due to the adonic adaptation uh aspect. But uh subsequent research has really shown that an increase in income and wealth does continue to slightly increase happiness levels as defined by overall life satisfaction markers. Now I was really interested in this because I got a little bit tired of this broomemide if you will. Well, money doesn't matter.

[48:11] Well, it certainly mattered in my life. And um — easy to say when you got a lot of it, right? That's usually the person who's saying it. — Yeah. Here's a quote. Um, yeah, money doesn't matter unless you don't have any. That's from the Gilded Age. Um, I also, while I'm here, I like this one from Prince. Money can't buy happiness, but it sure will pay for the search. — that's great. — If you think money can't buy happiness, you're not spending it right. Uh, so — is that you? Can we quote you on that — Well, you can. I don't know where that came from. if you don't think money can buy happiness, you're not spending it right. — So I mean um — and the other thing that — that has been under uh described and Sonia Luma Lumki really did this well. Money can prevent most of the causes of And sometimes a prevention of some of these aspects of unhappiness become more important than acquiring things that may cause happiness through money. So you know there is such a thing as a poverty and this affects everything from the mind to the body and uh it's said that it's generally good to have money but uh it's toxic to your happiness if you want too much. So this gets back to the um idea. So money is not sufficient in in the final analysis. But I I got really interested and dug deep into the research and I saw a little bit of an upward swing and the the research took it up to 200k and above a year and it was still slightly moving up but the measure was on life satisfaction which is again like looking back. Um I'm satisfied with my life in general. I have meaning. um I'm I'm at peace with who I am in the world and um those markers continue again it's not this is sort of aggregate data but it it tends to um produce more happiness um — so okay resolve something for me so one of the things we've talked about in our family with the kids is like you know um it it's really easy to get upside down emotionally if you always want for more instead of being grateful ful for what you have. And so a focus on gratitude for what you have can lead to a much kind of um a much better existence, you know, the way that we talk about it. So it's gratitude for what you have instead of disappointment for what you don't have. It's it's just a perspective you develop over time. And I think I think what I'm hearing you say is there's some truth to that, but there's some basic level of things that make it and and and the more of those things you have, the easier it is to take that position.

[51:04] — Right. Sufficiency is a word that's used here because uh if you're in a poverty cycle, you're not at your best self. — And you're making all sorts of compromises. Your cortisol level is way up and you're not thinking straight. — Stress stress. — Yeah. A lot of stress. Um but what you said about um describing happiness at that level or satisfaction really comes out of many religious philosophical traditions and it's essentially described as satisfaction equals what you have divided by what you want. M — and the the the Buddhist path is and the secret to satisfaction is not to increase what you have is to decrease what you want. Now this is a you know it's a tricky um or maybe a difficult challenge but um being uh happy is always looking to what we don't have. That's why the cup is half full is one of those ways to to be satisfied with what you have.

[52:17] — Have Have you done any research into like the way that different, you know, cultures I I think about them like from a national perspective, but like how different countries view that? Have you done any look I have to again this is an area where I know absolutely nothing but I have to imagine that like different countries approach this problem very — Yeah. I mean, the social democracies of Northern Europe have a different take on this because they — they mostly have what they want. — Um the the outliers are in some cultures in in South America um and other cultures in the southern hemisphere that seem to be very happy people. Uh but they are so focused on family and the uh activities of daily living with their um tribe that they and they have come to um not want that much more. It's like in India there's there's cast.

[53:22] I I did an interesting blog about uh Indian matchmaking that had a lot to do with cast. Um that's another topic about Indian marriages etc. But in cast, if you're on the lower level, you don't even you don't even think about being in another cast. You get happy within the domain of your cast because that's all you know. That's all you've been taught to want. So you can overindex on one of these domains to find happiness, but but at some point you can't index all the way there like we talked about with accomplishment. So you you can kind of weight one of them more heavily maybe and be happy. But to go all the way into accomplishment only, you're going to get past the point of happiness, — right? And if you were to weight it, I would wait it towards your relationship, — friendship, and connection to other human beings. — Yeah. That's how that's how the poor um the people in poor countries are able to have a good mood. They're cheerful because they don't want a lot. — And they have their families. — Reduce threshold for material sufficiency. Yeah. Increased desire for — Do you think we hunger for that as a as a species? Do you think that's a natural — For relationship?

[54:38] — Yes. And I think we're suffering deeply right now. Um and certainly and this is another topic because I'm I'm quite attuned to the particular um psychology of of boys right now and isolation being isolated um and not connected to uh others. Um but our devices have taken us ironically away from our connection to others. um it has created um inappropriate or false dopamine hits of addiction that don't don't serve us and and the uh our brain and this again gets to a little bit of evolutionary psychology because there's a whole field of of positive psychology that came out of the evolutionary perspective. In fact, there's a book by a guy that uh I respect in Stonybrook in New York um positive evolutionary positive psychology and it's about mismatch how modern society is a mi mismatch to the way our brains were to develop 10,000 years in the in the plyiosene era. And one of those is the the uh how we're inundated with information and its frequency and some of it being useful, a lot of it not being useful and our brain is over as uh is shutting down doesn't have the capacity to deal with that and it causes us to shut down in other domains. Yeah.

[56:05] — Obvious also in relationship in general. — Yeah. I I I think of that. I just think of the news, right? And I I I don't think we were evolutionary. I I don't think that we were developed to be able to take the bad news for eight billion people, right? But now if something bad happens on the other side of the globe, the news just shoves it in our face and it's on social media and I I do and I think that's a big challenge for a lot of people. — Yeah. And you know, we live in a very individualistic country. Uh and so people um they're less on the front porch than they used to be even in America. And so it's become um more individual um and um you know what's the book bowling for um — by Putnham um anyways it's about how uh Americans have tended to just um uh re retreat inside of their houses. Um and — was it bowling alone? Was that the one?

[57:11] — Yes, bowling alone. Yeah. Yeah. Um and so we we need to try to to uh combat combat that um and reconnect community because we were we were designed our minds were designed basically to live in in tribes of essentially 150. Yeah. — It's called the Dunar number. Well, now you've got 8 million people on the planet and all of this um uh information coming in. And that's why it's so important that we we recreate uh our uh tribe. — And to focus on relationship within that — So I mean this is a lifetime of work, right? And not everyone can be as studied as you are on how to be happy. That's there's I mean decades and decades of work you've done here. So, if I wanted to get started, I'm listening, interesting topic. It's like, okay, but where would I start? Like, what do I if I I however happy I am, I'm a little happy, I'm a lot happy, but I want to be a little happier. Where do you start?

[58:17] Like, what's the what's the top three, five, 10 things you do right out of the gate to move forward in a good — Well, you might read a I mean, this the the literature is really prolific. Uh, I I I might just as off the top of my head recommend that people start where I I started with Gretchen Rubin's The Happiness Project. — Happiness becomes a project for you. And she wrote a book about it, a whole year of just figuring that out. Um, and there are hundreds of other books, but um, start practicing the habits. uh keeping gratitude or what went well journal practice seeing the good — and that's literally just writing down today it didn't rain or whatever — right um stop and notice and savor one thing every day we didn't even talk about savoring but that is that's so big in my life that is to to savor uh the outside world you may have not know that the crepe myrtles bushes are all in bloom right Now the pink is all around us. I stopped yesterday and just looked at those blossoms and looked at bees on those blossoms. There's a whole method of how to focus, take it into memory. So savoring, notice savoring every day.

[59:41] Look for the everyday awe. That is acts of moral beauty. Look for them because they're out there. Acknowledge and validate one person every day. Describe a blessing and describe. Perform five acts of generosity in one day. The research shows that if you do them all in one day and not not the rest of the week, you actually get more bang for your buck from your buck than doing one — um sort of act of generosity singularly in one day because then your your mind gets adapted to it and it doesn't have its impact. — Use a signature strength to address a challenge. Reframe a dispute, a negative thought. We didn't talk much about that. Smile at three people and at yourself every day. Find flow in a talent, hobby, or project. Give constructive response to another's another's good news. This is an interesting thing from couple psychotherapy, John Gottman and others from the Seattle Marriage Institute. Um they found that couples get a bigger bang when their good news is shared and as opposed to necessarily think I'm going through uh the realm of empathy towards bad news. Support my good news.

[1:00:57] Be on my side. Be my cheerleader. That's that's very very good for relationship. Be in nature. Spend money on I mean, that's my ticket. Practice mindfulness. Medit meditate or pray. Here's a good one. Clean a room, closet, or your garage. I mean, it works. — So, those are some of the practices. Um, and not everybody needs to do all of those certainly, but uh, gratitude is signature and writing down what you're grateful for, um, at least once in a while is going to give you a lot of, um, bang for the buck. Now, I will leave with you guys. I've got sort of a handout for you guys of other quotes and a happiness bibliography of all the the books. Um and um to whatever degree the listener may be interested in some of those titles or want to be in touch with me. That's I certainly would welcome — Yeah, we'll link that in the show notes for sure. We'll we'll make sure they know exactly how to get in touch with you and we'll put the books up as well.

[1:02:08] That's fantastic. — One final question. How do you define a a well-lived life? are true to yourself. You have the experience of being true to yourself and that you connected to other people's other people uh around you and in the in the service of something larger than yourself and with the experience of relationship connection that generates love and warm feelings. That's a well-lived life. — Love it. That is a great way to wrap this up. I think that puts a bow. We're saying happiness puts a bow on the five Fs. This puts a bow on that, I think. So, great. Um, Steven, if people, again, it'll be in the show notes, but if people want to find you, where where can we send them? — Well, I um I would recommend my email actually [email omitted].

[1:03:17] And I will respond to everybody. You know, I I like sending documents and resources and comments. I mean, this is this is something I do daily to communicate with people. — That's great. — Great. Love it. — All right. Well, thank you so much. This has been fantastic and I really I again I think this ties into so many of the conversations we've had, John. Uh and I and I hope the listeners have enjoyed as much as we have. Uh listeners, as always, download, subscribe, tell your friends, just the ones you want to be happy. Don't tell the other ones, but anybody you want to be happy, tell them about the podcast, spread it, and uh everybody have a fantastic day. Thank you for listening. — Thanks, Steve. — Thank you. — Listen and subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Click follow for more content like this or go to talesofabundance.com to join our community and get free tools.

Can Money Buy Happiness? Redefining Success and Fulfillment