Tales of Abundance
Tales of Abundance artwork

All episodes

Can Humans Live to 150? Longevity, Healthspan, Sleep & Loneliness

Episode 53 · 17 December 2025 · 1 hr 4 min

Open on Spotify

Show notes

Can Humans Live to 150? Longevity, Healthspan, Sleep and Loneliness

Can humans live to 150? Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino look at what the research says about lifespan and healthspan, and why purpose, sleep and connection may matter as much as diet and exercise.

Can humans actually live to 150?

Randy, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony dive deep into the science and philosophy of longevity, exploring whether living a full, vibrant life well past 100 is just hopeful speculation or a near-future reality.

They break down what modern research says about extending lifespan and healthspan, why purpose, sleep and social connection might be as important as diet and exercise, and how AI is transforming the way we manage personal health, even helping diagnose elusive conditions.

Other key topics include Blue Zones and Japan's Ikigai philosophy; the dark side of "Fiat food" and poor dietary policy; why loneliness can be as deadly as smoking; personalized medicine, fall prevention and brain health; whether we'd accept robotic implants or brain chips to live longer; and why some people simply aren't planning to die.

This wide-ranging and heartfelt conversation offers practical takeaways for anyone aiming to live longer, and live better.

Healthspan vs Lifespan, Loneliness as Bad as Smoking, and Ikigai

What you'll discover:

  • What the research says about whether humans could live to 150
  • Japan's Ikigai and Blue Zones: purpose as medicine
  • Sleep, movement, balance and fall prevention: the small habits that extend life
  • How Randy used AI to spot a rare sleep disorder, and how to use AI alongside your doctor
  • Healthspan vs lifespan, and why loneliness may be as harmful as smoking
  • Artificial organs, brain chips, exoskeletons and VR: how far would you go to live longer?

This episode is for educational purposes only and isn't medical advice.

Timestamps

  • [00:00] Welcome: Randy, John and Anthony on how long people can live
  • [00:26] Could humans live to 150? What science says right now
  • [03:07] Are we healthier today than previous generations?
  • [06:36] How "Fiat food" and failed dietary policy created a health divide
  • [08:12] Japan's Ikigai: finding purpose as medicine
  • [10:40] Sleep, movement, balance, and the small habits that extend life
  • [13:04] Risk mitigation: why falls are a silent killer
  • [17:02] Using AI to self-diagnose a rare sleep disorder: Randy's story
  • [24:23] AI vs. doctors: what's the right way to use new tools?
  • [30:23] Lifespan vs. healthspan: why quality matters more than quantity
  • [34:01] Break: Premium Cabinets business opportunity
  • [34:38] Loneliness and social disconnection: as harmful as smoking
  • [39:42] The challenge of funding a longer life: what 150 means for finance
  • [43:09] Fitness for the 100-year body: what training might look like
  • [44:33] Extending the frontier: regenerative health and artificial organs
  • [46:31] Doing the work now to get to the future you want
  • [55:29] Would you get a brain chip or robotic exoskeleton to live longer?
  • [59:29] Living in the Matrix? The future of VR and digital existence
  • [1:02:08] How long would you want to live, and what would it take?
  • [1:03:09] Why gratitude, connection, and joy might be the best medicine

🌿 SPONSORED BY AG1 (Athletic Greens)

Fuel your health and performance from the inside out.

Try AG1: https://shop.drinkag1.com/tales

About the hosts

This is a hosts-only episode with no guest: Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino. (Host bios are on the host pages linked below.)

Articles discussed (from the episode prep doc):

Find us online:

Hit Subscribe so you never miss an episode of Tales of Abundance. 🔔

Related episodes

Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It comes from the episode recording and has speaker labels and time markers, which line up with the published audio. It hasn't been proofread, so expect some errors in names and terms.

Randy Lorensen [00:12]: Listeners, welcome to Tales of Abundance. As always, I am here with Anthony and Dr. John. Gentlemen, how are we doing today?

Dr. John Oberg [00:21]: I'm alive and well based on the topic. was waiting for Anthony. You gotta be faster than that.

Anthony Marino [00:21]: Doing great. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Happy to be here.

Randy Lorensen [00:26]: All right. Well, we're going to get into longevity and just how long people can live today. And I think this is going to be a really interesting topic. Listeners, by the way, I always ask you to download, subscribe, tell your friends at the end. I'm going to tell you at the beginning in case you don't make it till the end. So go on there, download, subscribe, go to the website, talesofbundance.com, whatever you have to do.

Dr. John Oberg [00:42]: No, that is not a... That is not a great longevity speech, Randy.

Randy Lorensen [00:50]: You never know. Some people are busy. They go to the gym. you know, you never know what's going to happen. Somebody might get in a car crash between now and then. Let's hope not. But you never know. All right. So I want to start out. The first thing was an article out of Nature magazine. And it asks the question, could humans live to be 150? And John, I know you reference you. You reviewed this article. You want to give it give people a synopsis of what it is?

Dr. John Oberg [00:52]: Hehehehe man, tough, tough start. mean, the short answer is this question is everywhere, right? I think lots of people want the answer to be yes. The answer today is not yet. And so I think lots of really smart people believe that we're headed this direction and the science is becoming more clear. I, one, am in that camp. I hope to make it past 100. So I think there's some really interesting things that are happening, but I don't think there's really clear answers today. And so today we have hope. We have some science that seems to be pointing us in that direction. But think that if somebody was asking hardcore scientifically, it true today, the answer is not yet, but you know, that's okay.

Randy Lorensen [01:57]: Anthony, what are your thoughts on this?

Anthony Marino [02:00]: It's just, you know, to me it's a, I wish this. All of this, all these advances had happened 15 or 20 years ago. I'm afraid that people are going to be living to 125 and living well at 125, but I'll be gone by the time that technology gets to the, uh, gets to the masses. It's just an amazing, amazing set of things that are going on in terms of discovery and so forth. And there's both, I have both, um, a lot of positive thoughts about it and, some things that trouble me in terms of why have for so long we've missed the important aspects of diet and exercise and healthcare that would improve people's longevity. So I have some issues with big farmer and things like that. But the good news is there's a lot of great stuff on the horizon. And I think it's going to really help people in the long run.

Randy Lorensen [03:07]: Yeah, it's, you know, let me ask you guys a question kind of slightly on a different trail. When I was a kid, I used to see people that were my age, 56, and I would think, holy shit, they're old, right? And what I'm trying, what I ask myself is, was that because I was eight or 10 or 12 and they just seemed old compared to a 10 year old? Or are we that much healthier now? What do you think that is? My feeling is 56 year olds are healthier than they were. you know, 40, 50 years ago, but what do you guys think? And I'm picking that because that's my age. mean, it could be a 40 year old, could be an 80 year old, but I already feel like we're healthier than we were. Do you guys think that's true?

Dr. John Oberg [03:49]: Yeah.

Anthony Marino [03:53]: They don't the way I would answer that I would would would waffle on that because there's probably a significant bifurcation in the population depending on. You know, maybe socioeconomic influences that. You know the facts are there's enjoying will speak to this. The incidence of severe. complications with diabetes and heart health and so forth is afflicting a significant population. Conversely, there's part of the population that has taken its health seriously and are doing some things or a lot of things to improve their health and keep their health. So I think the answer is it depends. Certainly the opportunity to be healthy has never been better. But whether or not people are taking advantage of that is another question.

Dr. John Oberg [04:52]: I Mandy, you're probably seeing a lot healthier people based on who you hang out with today versus who you hung out with when you were eight. And so if you just kind of take yourself back and think about the community you lived in and what was around you and then think about the community today, the real question is, is the socioeconomic composition the same as a societal composition the same? And so if you look back at that, I would actually ask the question back to you. Right. Do you think do you think you were seeing a broad spectrum of society? kind of in one or both places.

Randy Lorensen [05:23]: No, and you know, is like, think a lot more of those people had worked their tail off on the farm for all those years, or they worked in a factory, they did, you know, just life was a lot fricking harder back then. On the other hand, they took a lot less drugs, they ate a lot less sugar. If they worked on the farm or they worked in the factory, they were exercising all day. there's... I don't know how to weight those, which one, you because there's forces working both directions, right? And it, you know, we definitely have had some advancements, but there's things that, you know, as Anthony said earlier, a lot of the incentives that have been in the drug companies and hospitals and whatnot have not necessarily led to the best outcomes, in my opinion.

Dr. John Oberg [05:56]: think that's right. You prepping for this, guys both mentioned hospitals and drug companies. I think we have to also put like big food in there too, right? Like just the abundance of availability to processed food is, you know, certainly also a factor.

Anthony Marino [06:20]: Mm-hmm.

Randy Lorensen [06:20]: For sure. Yeah, I definitely think that's true. I mean, we got, know, go back to episode five. You can hear about Fiat food in that episode.

Anthony Marino [06:32]: That's where I was cutting. Yeah, and

Dr. John Oberg [06:36]: Yeah, for sure.

Anthony Marino [06:36]: that's where I was coming from earlier about some negative thoughts I have about, you know, a very sophisticated country with tremendous advances in technology and armaments and, you know, the delivery of clean water and electricity and so forth. Yet, you know, somehow for a significant period of time, We had the most horrendous recommended food recommendations and the, the, the, the diet pyramid and so forth. And that was allowed to permeate our society, which is one of the, one of the real significant causes for this bifurcation and health that we have, you know, the, habits that got created during this period of time, you know, not easy to overcome. And in some cases were deadly. to people that lived that lifestyle, who not here today because of it. So I have a real negative feeling about that. I'm not sure I'll ever get over it.

Dr. John Oberg [07:42]: Getting the Fiat Food episode was a great one. Listeners, go back, check it out with Matthews. It was just a great, certainly very eye-opening for me from not only from a food perspective, but just the sociology and the policy level. And I learned a lot reading that book.

Randy Lorensen [07:59]: All right, similar, let's pivot a little bit here. The next headline, Japan's global longevity summit. How do you say this word, John? Ikegai?

Dr. John Oberg [08:12]: I'm gonna go with that one or Ikigai or Akigai or I don't yeah definitely don't understand how to pronounce it but I definitely understand the concept of it.

Randy Lorensen [08:21]: Yeah, so I mean, but the concept is that it is as medicine and it's talking about blue zones 2.0. And, you know, if you you look at this, it's pretty interesting. I mean, they're talking about which will kind of get bonds, the healthy longevity of their four pillars, bonds with communication. Dietary fiber, Anthony might disagree with that. Physical activity and then whatever that word is, can't say. Yeah.

Dr. John Oberg [08:51]: It's really about your life's purpose, right? So the Japanese have this concept that you have like what you love doing, what the world needs, what you can get paid for and then what you're good at. And you draw this Venn diagram and then, you know, one becomes your profession. If the overlap of two circles, the other two circles can be a vocation for you. One is your life's mission. One is your life's passion. But in the middle of those four, you actually have this really amazing way of finding your purpose, right? And so if I can pull up this, I'm going to pull up this chart here. See if I can share the screen.

Randy Lorensen [09:30]: Yeah, this is, we just talked about this two weeks ago, think, a couple of weeks ago when we talked about urine planning, we talked about this on the podcast then. So it's interesting that they're talking about how this can lead to a long, healthy life.

Dr. John Oberg [09:44]: It's about purpose, And so when you have purpose, I think that there's a lot of things in life, kind of like, you know, relationships. think relationships and purpose are really important for people to have a reason to wake up in the morning. And I think there's a lot of evidence that once someone retires from their job, if they don't keep their brain engaged, that I think the science that I read was like five years after that people tend to pass away. And certainly it was a shorter time window when, you know, social security in the United States was first set up as an even shorter time period. So. You know, at the end of the day, having a purpose in your life is helpful and important. Having friends in your life helpful and important. so think the Blue Zones, there was a really cool series, I think on Netflix about Blue Zones that I found fascinating. Just about, you know, how many things they had in common in different parts of the world to have real longevity to live past a hundred.

Anthony Marino [10:40]: It's, you know, the, don't disagree with anything that he said or what's what, what the, foundation of what would, what the Japanese are talking about here. It's it's social connection and you know, having, a purpose is incredibly important, but it's just an element or an element or two of all the other things that are at play, right? It's, it's having the right diet for you. It's having, you know, the. the appropriate amount of physical activity and clearly getting enough sleep. You can't, can have all the other things that happen if you're not getting the proper sleep. Your body doesn't have a chance to rejuvenate, to heal itself, and to prepare itself for the next day. So it's an amalgamation of all those things, not a great word, but that's what comes to mind.

Dr. John Oberg [11:20]: That's right.

Anthony Marino [11:37]: And then over the top of that, around that or underneath that, however you want to look at it is technology, right? The technology of medicine, the supplements that you can take that enhance your physical health and your mental health. it's all of that comes together. And that's a lot for people to digest and to decide upon what path I'm going to take. Someone who may be in slightly below average health at a given time in their life, to think about living to 100, that's going to require a lot of change in their life. And it can be overwhelming to people. And we talked about this in the planning a couple of weeks ago, that first step is the hardest. OK, I'm going to try to create this habit. You know, can't go from

Dr. John Oberg [12:37]: So hold on, Anthony, you've gone through like 17 different things that are all really important. So let's start with very beginning. You talked about diet and exercise. think the one thing that I would have to add to that would be like risk mitigation, right? Because you've got Richard Simmons, that the guy that was like the super exercise guy in the 70s and 80s, amazing diet, amazing exercise, died in his 70s as a result of a fall where he hit his head in the bathroom. And so when you go through diet and exercise,

Anthony Marino [12:56]: Mm-hmm.

Dr. John Oberg [13:04]: You need to some risk mitigation. So I think most experts would say balance, mobility, strength are the three things you want to work on primarily to avoid falling, which is a killer of people as they age. And so in sleep, of course I would add in there too, but I think, those things, as you're working about the habits you were going to talk about and all those things, if you're going to start somewhere, balance, mobility, strength, right? And movement, those are, that's, that's a great place to start.

Randy Lorensen [13:32]: Yeah.

Anthony Marino [13:33]: Right. Enhancing those things is a step, not a step, is something that you want to work on. What I'm referencing though is just getting physical activity. We all know people in our lives that are in suboptimal shape who haven't even taken that first step. So you're not going to be able to enhance your balance. until you take that first step in physical activity. That can be just walking in your neighborhood. I know someone very close to me that can barely walk around their little apartment, let alone start working on going to Pilates to learn to enhance their balance and flexibility and so forth. So it's just a tough, tough situation that some people are in. But it's all of those things that matter.

Randy Lorensen [14:30]: Yeah, and I love the purpose. I tend to believe that the mind... However important health and all this other stuff is, I just think everything starts with the mind and belief systems and attitudes. But, you know, and one of the best examples of that, Dan Sullivan, who I don't know how old he is, 80 some years old, and he always says he's going to live to be 155 or 156, or I forget what number, 58, something like that. He has a saying, because this guy has so much energy, still running a huge corporation, and his saying is, that you need to have a future that's brighter than your past. And I'm paraphrasing, the words are probably a little off, but I really think that goes back to what you're talking about with purpose, John. If people really have a purpose and a drive, whether it's, you know, in your case, fixing diabetes and, you know, things like that, or somebody else that could just be feeding the homeless, I don't care what it is. If somebody has that purpose and their future is brighter and they're building, then yeah, they tend, I think they're gonna live a lot longer.

Dr. John Oberg [15:33]: I think Peter Attia has got a really interesting approach to this. calls it the Centurion Olympics. He talks about the 10 things you want to be able to do in your final 10 years of life. If your final 10 years, you plan to be 90 to 100 or 140 to 150, what are the 10 things you want to be able to do? And understanding what that takes from a health perspective and to start training for it now, which makes a ton of sense to me. I'd never been a runner. I don't plan to be a runner into the later years, but I do want to be able to walk and hike. Some of the things on my list are like, want to be able to make sure that I can put my luggage in and overhead bin the last 10 years of my life. Like that's a thing, right? He talks about like what your VO2 max has to be if you want to be having sex relative to where it is. I think these are the things that people can be thinking about if they want to think about a future that's as bright as they want it to be in those last 10 years. And so, you know, I just used AI with my wife and I was like, what are the, you know, what are the things that might be on our Centurion Decathlon? Like what are the things that I want to be thinking about for my last 10 years? And we haven't gone all the way through the exercise yet, but we've started the conversation and what things do we want to do together and what things are really important to me. But that'll tell me what steps I need to be taking today. I was 50 pounds heavier, 55 pounds heavier a few years ago. having played sports all the way through college, like that wasn't acceptable. So was not a tough road to some people Anthony are talking about. It was not an easy road back.

Randy Lorensen [17:02]: Yeah. So, all right. You were talking about the AI use case. Let's use that to transition to the next topic. And I had a little experience with AI last week that ties perfectly into this, I think. And it really is, wow, we live in such a world of abundance and things that we can do that we couldn't do years ago. So what happened is, I believe it was last Tuesday. Julie got up and she's like, my God, you kicked a lot last night. So I have kicked in my sleep for as long as I can remember. I thought it was restless leg syndrome. I've talked to doctors about this. There's never really, nobody's had anything that's even remotely helped. And I thought, let me ask AI. So I asked it a prompt and it was just a general, here's what's going on. And it gave me six or 10 potential outcomes. Right. And

Dr. John Oberg [17:53]: Is it? Yep.

Randy Lorensen [17:54]: I was like, okay, this is kind of useless and too broad, which I think is a lot of people's experience with AI. And I realized I've got to ask it better questions and give it more context. So I gave it more context. came back, it cut it down to whatever. I just, you know, I gave it like, I think my age and this, I don't remember exactly what I did. I don't think that's, I'll give you some specific context and well, it is, I'll give you some specific things that really jumped it ahead.

Dr. John Oberg [18:07]: Wait, hold on, what does more context look like? I think it's important.

Randy Lorensen [18:24]: So anyway, it gave me a little better answer. But then the first thing on there said something like, well, it's most likely this, but we need to test your iron levels to know if it's it. I said, well, great. I just did a blood test two months ago. So I literally took the blood test, fed it in, and it disqualified three of the things on the list. And that gave it more. Then it was like, well, it could be this, but we need to test Something again originally it was like sodium iron and magnesium it wanted to know then it wanted something that starts with an F fan I don't know what it was something and I said, oh well I have the Peter Attia or not Peter Tia that the dr Mark Hyman function health test that has 130 or 40 markers and I'm gonna take that it was eight or nine months ago that I did it but I gave it the older blood test that Didn't even check it. Just copied and pasted it, put it in there, it goes great. Everything that I kept giving it, it kept giving the answers. And then it said, do you happen to get up and pee a lot in the middle of the night? I was like, well, yes, I do, as a matter of fact. So it started digging in and asking me questions. And this went back and forth for a little while. And finally, it said, you have this, you very likely have. this rare form of sleep apnea that by the way was not on the first list of answers that was not like sleep apnea itself was but not this really rare form and I forget what it's called but I have a rare form of sleep apnea and what's happening the reason I'm kicking it's not restless leg syndrome is literally I can't breathe and my airway is shut off and therefore every 10 to 15 seconds My brain is starving of oxygen and it's sending the signal to my legs to kick and wake me up so I don't die. And this has been happening.

Dr. John Oberg [20:25]: And that's what the AI said you may have and it makes sense to you because it fits everything you're experiencing.

Randy Lorensen [20:31]: Yeah, but it went there and asked me about the peeing thing. It just kept going and it kept asking more questions. But at the end, and by the way, the peeing thing, it says what this is, it's not the water you drank at night, because I was going up two to four times a night and like because I had to, right? And it's like, it's not the water, it's the cortisol that the stress when your brain is sending that signal, it is stress hormone it's going to the liver the liver is processing it and turning it into sugar and It's peeing that out and getting that out of the system which by the way opened up a whole nother can of worms I've had not pre-diabetic even but I'm really I've been the part of the reason for the updated blood test is I was close to being pre-diabetic and it didn't make sense to me because I really, I less sugar than 98 % of the population. I don't eat that much and I didn't understand why the number was there. And it says this will probably significantly drop my blood sugar level too. And this is where it was coming from are these stress hormones that were in the body. The best part, gives me a, when it gets done, it says, here's how you test it for $15 on Amazon, order this product. I went on Amazon, bought a $13 product that was more highly rated. It's little plugs I stuck in my nose that opens up the nasal passage. And guess what? For the last six nights, I don't kick. I either get up zero times in the night to pee or one time in the night to pee. I just feel better, right? I'm sleeping better. I'm sleeping longer. And you know,

Dr. John Oberg [22:07]: How are you feeling in terms of rest? Yeah, that's great.

Randy Lorensen [22:17]: I've been trying to solve this for years. Doctors, nobody's ever given, and I could have went to a sleep clinic, but it really is amazing the world we live in. And this is just one little piece, you know, along with all the other.

Dr. John Oberg [22:29]: But as a guy who works in a medical clinic, I would still encourage you to now take all this to a doctor and talk them through it because you don't want to miss something else. But it is great. Just the fact that you have information at your fingertips that would take so much. 50 years ago, you almost have to be a doctor to have access to that information, right? Or you have to go through encyclopedias or you have to go through a science library to figure that out. And it would take months maybe. And now we have it at our fingertips, which is just astonishing.

Randy Lorensen [22:59]: I mean, it's amazing. just, I, who knows? I probably would have suffered for this for the rest of my life. And when I think about it now, I'm like, holy shit, my body thought I was dying every 10 to 15 seconds for, you know, this is going on all night long for years. That cannot be helped.

Anthony Marino [22:59]: You know what?

Dr. John Oberg [23:12]: Well, just a word of caution, I guess, for anybody who's listening. that is, Randy, you're really good at prompting AI, which helps a lot. And I think that it's easy for AI to kind of take you down a path that may not be right. And so, we love the idea of people using AI in our medical practice to find the right questions to answer providers, to ask providers and get them to be more well-informed about their health. I truly believe the more informed we are about our health, the longer we're gonna live, the better we're gonna do. We've got to increase the ability for a patient to engage with the doctor, like that has to be a part of it. And one of my favorite mugs on Amazon is a mug that says, don't confuse your Google search with my medical degree. I still think there's a lot of value to a physician kind of aiming at that along with the patient. And I think my hope is that it makes medical providers, you know, even more effective at what they're doing because it's hard. It's hard to keep up with all the things that you may have forgotten to tell a doctor or didn't take in with you or they didn't ask because they were focused on your, you know, getting up and going to, you know, the bathroom multiple times or whatever. anyway.

Randy Lorensen [24:23]: Well, look, this isn't like its answer was take cyanide, right? Or jump off of a 50-story building. mean, its answer was go buy this $15 product, stick it in your nose and see if it solves the problem.

Dr. John Oberg [24:36]: Yeah, I just want to be careful. I want to be careful because there are other people that I don't know what the other things could have been. like there are things that people could like we have a friend who came to ask the three of us like they had a problem and everyone had an answer. My answer is get a good diagnostician to find out because that might be a cancer or something else that somebody else can't see and not treating that well would be not prudent. So, you know, when there's something going on for people, my answer is going to be I think AI is great. You should find out and If you're having a chronic problem, get a diagnostician to get involved so you don't miss something really important and have it be too late.

Anthony Marino [25:13]: really, I was wondering how I was going to bring that up, that recent conversation we had with a friend of ours. there was, let me set the context for that for our listeners. One of our friends had had some pain in his hip. And Randy and I both looked at each other and Randy has a chiropractor that approaches chiropractic care a little bit differently or a lot differently than most. So don't I. And both looked at each other and we had the answer for this gentleman. said, you know, you got to go, go, go do this. And, and John, of course, you know, gave the answer he just gave.

Dr. John Oberg [25:51]: I know that chiropractor and think the world of her. She is amazing, amazing.

Anthony Marino [25:53]: No, I know. The reason I'm bringing it up is, and I agree with you, John, that it's great when you have the resources and the time and the ability to go see a primary care physician to maybe do a little further diagnosis for you. But I think, I think whether this is a danger or a solution or something in between, people are going to go to AI. and ask these questions, are they going to go to their friends and ask, you know, what do you think I should do? you know, not you know, being being a little bit wary of the Western medicine, as I am, when when we think something would work, we're very inclined to give people advice. Now, they should take that advice for what it's worth. And as long as it's not a dangerous piece of advice, it may or may not be worth it to that person. you know, Randy's experience with AI, you know, we in the old days, we would go to Google and ask WebMD for the the old days like that was like last year. We use WebMD and we thought that was the source of truth. So, yeah, people have to consider the situation how how serious it could be, might be, but they are gonna be seeking fast answers.

Dr. John Oberg [27:31]: Yeah, I think that's right. you know, if we put the longevity lens on this, like I was having, had a cocktail party, you know, a holiday party over the weekend. And someone was asking me like, what do you think about this diet or that diet and or this way? look, here, there are some things that are harmful. Let's put those in a separate bucket for now. There are a lot of things that are helpful, some of which are evidence based, some of which are just anecdotal. I think we're going to find that know, personalizing the medicine is what's going to help us get into longevity. And that means that I might have something that works amazingly well for me that may work amazingly well for you, or it might not. Or I have something that might work amazingly well for me for a time period or a season, and then something shifts. And so my encouragement to everybody is like take in the information, but know my belief is that we're moving towards more personalized medicine.

Anthony Marino [28:01]: Mm-hmm.

Dr. John Oberg [28:24]: And whether that's pharmacological therapeutics or gene therapies or stem cell treatments. I think a lot of these things have a ton of promise. I really think that the better we are at this in the long term, it's going to be personalized. Which means that people generally say what works for me is gonna work for you. I just think we have to be a little bit more skeptical about that and willing to take that information in and not be skeptical because... you know, not just Western medicine or Western medicine only, but like, just does this fit what is for me? Try it on maybe. And you know, as long as it's not doing harm, no harm in trying it on. But like I take a bunch of supplements that probably aren't helping me, but there's no downside to me taking them. And I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm making a very conscious choice that I'm probably just making for really expensive urine. And I'm good with that because it's a bet that I'm making.

Anthony Marino [29:18]: Yeah, the three of us are in positions where we can get access to professional help. is not, just talk to the average person on a health plan. Just getting in to see a doctor can be brutal, let alone a specialist. And if you're older and you're on Medicare, a lot of PCPs or primary care physicians don't take Medicare anymore. It's become very, very difficult. Your point about personalization is really important because you've got to own your health based on where you are on your journey line. Where Randy is in his life, where you are in yours, where I am in mine, it's very, very different. We come from completely different backgrounds. Our habits are totally different. We're totally different, are totally different. And you do, just have to own it. If you want to have Not so it's not about the length of time. It's about the quality of the time that you have on this earth. I talk

Dr. John Oberg [30:23]: Let's talk about that health span versus lifespan. This is a really important conversation that I've only become aware of in the last few years. I thought about it, but I didn't have those words for it. And it's really about how you want the quality of your last 10 years of life to be. And they're obviously very interrelated, right? So the more you drive your health span, the more you drive your lifespan. The more you drive your lifespan, hopefully you have to do your health span. So I think they're really hyper interrelated. Do you guys think a lot about health span and how you want to live the last 10 years?

Randy Lorensen [30:56]: I don't think about 10 years. think about the next hundred years. Like I just, I, for me, the 10 years is, you know, I just, it's getting through this point. You know, Ray Kurzweil talks about the singularity and it's coming and we're not that far away. And there's a, there's going to be a place, his concept is there will be a place where Like technology will be increasing lifespan more than one year for every year that you're alive. And when that happens, you will in essence be able to live forever. Now, I don't know if he's right. I don't know, you know, who wants, if everybody wants to live forever or whatever, but I think about it just as in more, I don't know, 20 or 50 year chunks, I would say.

Anthony Marino [31:41]: Yeah, John, I, to answer your question. Yes, I think about it. I literally think about it constantly in terms, in terms of what am I doing today? That is having a positive and negative impact on my future. My future is tomorrow and 10 years from now, 20 years now, stupid story. You know, we have all the grandkids coming into town for Christmas and you know, there's going to be cookie making and you know, all kinds of stuff. everyone's diet gets kablooie during the holidays. So, you know, my wife makes these sugar cookies every year that I don't like. so that's all right. That's it. you don't know. That's okay. Cause it's, it's perfectly okay. Yeah, she knows. So I found another recipe.

Dr. John Oberg [32:19]: Now, Anthony, this is public. we have to edit that part out? Okay. Does she know? Okay. All right.

Randy Lorensen [32:27]: Have you met Anthony? You think she doesn't know?

Dr. John Oberg [32:31]: Well, yeah, have also met Jan. It was possible.

Anthony Marino [32:35]: So I found this recipe, New York Times recipe for a different type of sugar cookie. And so last night I whipped up a half a batch to test it out. it came out good. They're fine. And I ate every one of them. And I've beaten myself up ever since. What the hell did you do?

Dr. John Oberg [32:51]: You ate a half a batch of cookies to make sure you had the right cookies to eat after the whole, I love it.

Anthony Marino [32:56]: Well, they were good. they all went down, you know, and but but back to the point, I beat myself up over it. So now I'm going to fast for a couple of days to rid my body of that excess sugar and, know, and get back on track. But to your point, I think about it all the time. You know, what am I doing today? You know, I did an extra half an hour on the Peloton this morning. I went for my walk. I got up and got my sunshine. All the things that you're supposed to do. ground your feet to the ground. All of that is still very, important, especially at my age where, you know, it could come fast.

Randy Lorensen [33:37]: So my real takeaway from that is that Jan's sugar cookies are actually much better than yours because they're better and healthier for you because you don't eat them. That's my takeaway. All right, listeners, we're gonna go to break. When we come back, we're gonna continue this conversation and specifically we're gonna get into loneliness and some of that and that's impact on longevity when we come back from the break.

Anthony Marino [33:46]: The baby.

Dr. John Oberg [33:48]: That's funny. That's funny.

Randy Lorensen [34:39]: Listeners, welcome back. I'm still here with John and Anthony. And we've been talking about lifespan. Can you live to be 150 years was really the question we started with. And the next thing, John, I know this this almost couldn't be more in your wheelhouse in a lot of ways. The next article is loneliness and social disconnection are as harmful as smoking and health risks equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. from loneliness. So I know this is something that hits home with you. Do you want to take up?

Dr. John Oberg [35:12]: Yeah, a couple other, I pulled up NIH and JAMA earlier, Journal of American Medical Association, and 2023 national poll reported 37 % of US older adults, age 50 to 80, experienced loneliness, and 34 % reported feeling socially isolated. The, you know, the current surgeon general has said on more than one occasion, or maybe it's the past surgeon general, but that loneliness and social isolation are the largest, most important health problem of our time, and so. Yeah, I mean this is the big one near and to my heart for sure connection and keeping people connected and getting people Reconnected or connect the new people like it's a big part of what I do professionally and personally

Randy Lorensen [35:54]: Yeah, I think this is a big one and it ties in. There's a second headline. We can talk about the two together really, but I think it's really interesting when you've, you know, we've got this theory and we kind of know stuff and then when the science actually backs it up, but it's that loneliness changes blood proteins linked to disease and mortality from the guardian. And anyway, about 90 % of the proteins that are caused by loneliness are linked to some type of mortality risk and half are linked to cardiovascular disease, stroke, or again, right in your wheelhouse, John, type 2 diabetes.

Dr. John Oberg [36:29]: I haven't seen that particular report, but it doesn't surprise me. know, depression, you know, I think there's some, I don't know how solid the links are, but I've heard about links from depression to like mental decline, Alzheimer's and dementia. so, you know, at end of the day, people want to be connected. Human beings are a community animal and we need to be in community to be the most healthy. And so not to say alone time is not good occasionally too. I needed some alone time to recharge over the weekend, but we're a community being for sure.

Randy Lorensen [37:03]: Yeah. Yeah. So we've, you know, we've talked about community. We've talked about exercise. We've talked about, you know, nutrition. We've talked about mindset. We've I mean, we've talked about a lot. What's that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've yes, definitely. There's there's a lot of things here, right? So Anthony, if you knew you were going to be healthy at 100. OK. And so not a lot. I'm not talking alive.

Dr. John Oberg [37:13]: Purpose, purpose, talk about purpose.

Randy Lorensen [37:31]: We're not talking about being decrepit and not being able to move, but we're talking about being healthy. Being as healthy as you are now at 100 years old. What does that change?

Anthony Marino [37:32]: and Well, so let's put the good habits aside because the assumption is that I'll have had a healthy diet and are still active and so forth and following the right regimen. What it comes down to for me is who am I going to share that with? Obviously, I want it to be the person I'm married to and my kids and my grandkids and so on and so forth. but what other part of the social community do I want to be part of? Or can I be part of to enable me to have the enjoyment that that brings? It isn't about me, it's about the community and the surroundings that you're a part of that really makes that part of life enjoyable. So who it will be, how it will be, where it will be, where do I want to live? in what kind of facility do I want to be in terms of a home or a community of people of similar age and backgrounds and so on. yeah, gives me, and I think about that now. I think about that now, so.

Randy Lorensen [39:01]: Well, you're tying right into the five F's, right? The family and the friends. Two of the five F's you're tying right into there.

Anthony Marino [39:08]: Well, the one thing we touched on earlier was finance. Longevity means you've got to have a way of financing that longevity. I don't think you can rely on the government for that, not in any way that's going to be maintain a lifestyle that I'm accustomed to. the planning, planning your finances. and protecting your finances during that time becomes really important as well.

Randy Lorensen [39:42]: Yeah, that's a big one, right? Because financial planners, they talk about, you're going to retire when you're 65 and you're going have enough money to last until you're 80, 90, 100, whatever it's going to be. But if all of a sudden it has to last till 150, the math changes quite a bit, right? You need either better returning investments, more money, know, a higher financial finish line, another concept we've talked about. You know, there's, that's a big variable. That's going to be a challenge for people.

Anthony Marino [40:12]: Do you keep working? And if you're working, know, if living to 100, 125 becomes the norm, how does that change society's approach to employment? You know, if, you know, everyone at this point, you're kind of targets that, you know, 65 to 75 area to, you know, hang it up. But What changes in society if that becomes, if 70 is the new 40?

Randy Lorensen [40:46]: I think you have to keep working, right? Like, I mean, I think if you're gonna live and have that purpose, maybe not. Maybe people can paint or travel or do charity work or whatever, but I think for a lot of people, they have to keep working. By the way, I hope our politicians in Washington aren't hearing this, because I'd like to get rid of all the 80-year-olds and the ones that are falling asleep in their chair, but for most people, I think yes, if you're healthy, let's keep working. John, you're on mute.

Dr. John Oberg [41:14]: Whether you're working as a vocation or avocation, right? Like it can be a hobby. It can be volunteer work. can be like if your finances, you know, play to that. But I think staying mentally alive and engaged has been shown to be a really important part of a healthy aging. And so, I mean, it's, it's a kind of an N of one, but Warren Buffett's what? 98 right now. How old is that guy? And he's still, you know, showing up at the office every day and just now turning over the reins. And then, you know, and my guess is he'll still show up to the office every day. You know, but I think that's so work doesn't have to be work for money. It can be, you know, a different career, a second career for some people, a third career. And that's okay too.

Randy Lorensen [41:54]: Yeah.

Anthony Marino [41:54]: our listeners, some may not recognize the name of Norman Lear, who lived to be 100. He created some of the most iconic sitcoms and TV shows in the 70s and 80s. But later in life, he mentored young writers and basically taught them as best he could. the secrets of his success. And that's how he spent the last 10 or so years of his life, taking all his successes and trying to teach the next generation of writers, comedy or otherwise. So yeah, to John's point, he had plenty of money and so he wanted to give back. that's what he did later in life. And he lived to be a hundred. And right up to the end, he was meeting with people and before he passed.

Dr. John Oberg [42:48]: The longest living woman that I could find in preparing for show today, 122 years old and change. The oldest man was 116 and change. so that's already been done, right? And we have recorded history a number of times. so that's the current bar.

Randy Lorensen [43:09]: Yeah, so we've talked about friends, family, the finances. What about fitness? How would that change? If knew you were going to be as healthy as you are now, or healthier maybe, let's say healthier, let's make it more fun. You're going to be healthier now than you were at 100. How would that change your fitness routine?

Dr. John Oberg [43:31]: Healthier to a hundred. I think some things that like the body is designed to kind of go through the whole life cycle, right? And so there is some decline and, you know, I think at age 50 something and beyond you're in that decline. So the hope I think would be that we find some ways to slow or reverse that decline. We've talked about that a little bit today already. And so, yeah, I think that's probably true for cognitive as well. And so, and then there's, you know, there's the emotional piece of it as well. So you would hope that you would physically, you know, so see a physical fitness, like we talk about in the five F's fitness, so physical fitness, mind, body, spirit, what's your mental, you know, ability, and then what is your spiritual emotional ability to get healthier? And so I think you'd want to be exercising in all three of those ways in an age appropriate way and getting stronger. And I think you can, you know, probably measure the strength of those three things in a lot of different ways, but based on what you want your activities and lifestyle to be.

Anthony Marino [44:33]: Well, I think it also depends, you know, we, we, We follow a number of people that give good advice and counsel. And I recommend to anyone listening or watching that, you you maybe follow Peter Diamandis or Anatia or Huberman. know, Diamandis, approach, not approach, but his belief is that we can extend the frontier, right? Whereas Huberman has created a baseline, right? Extending the frontier means What advances in technology are going to enable the skeleton to either rejuvenate or stay stronger into later years? Because your skeleton is currently designed to fade away almost in a lot of ways, cognitively, same thing. So what's on the frontier that's going to change those things, right? I think it's, was her name? Martina Rothblatt. She was the founder of Sirius Radio who went off. She had a daughter with a unique lung disease that was usually deadly. She quit her job and founded a company and found a cure for it. Well, now she's created a company that is creating organs, artificial organs, so artificial lungs and artificial livers and artificial kidneys and things like that. in use yet, those things, again, are they on the frontier? How does it, if those things happen, everything changes, right? There's no more, there's grandpa sitting in the chair watching the football game. No, there's grandpa out in the back, yeah, throwing the ball with the grandkids. It's a totally different lifestyle. That's what I hope happens in the not too distant future. That's what I want to be.

Dr. John Oberg [46:31]: That was push a little Anthony and say you're also doing the things though that it takes to be able to get there. I think that there are people I've met that want the pill, the shot, the whatever that is the shortcut only. And you know, we talked to people in our medical practice about, know, all those things are good shortcuts to get you going. But in order to make it to longevity, that at some point, healthy diet, healthy exercise, healthy relationships, those things need to happen in order to probably get to longevity in the direction we're headed today.

Anthony Marino [47:04]: Yeah, but I will tell you as a 69 year old guy, personally I personally are seeing the effects of age and I see it on the golf course. I see it in the distance that I could hit a golf ball has changed dramatically in the last five years. The flexibility, the swing speed, not so much the strength. But I'm 10 % shorter than I was just five years ago. And that really is hitting home with me right now. if there is a pill out there, and listeners, if you got a pill that can fix my 220, it drives back to 250, that would be really awesome. Send it along.

Dr. John Oberg [47:45]: Yes. Well, and golf clubs may do that too, right? Like at some point we may get technology, the golf clubs and the balls that pros aren't allowed to use because they're going too long could be a way to solve some of that too. But that's different than the core health, maybe.

Anthony Marino [48:08]: But that doesn't that doesn't change the health part of it. What I'm just saying is there is that I am deteriorating. That's the bottom line. And I guess everybody is to some extent. But man, it's it's emotional at this age. There's a there's a real emotion to.

Randy Lorensen [48:25]: According, circling back to Kurzweil, according to him, there's going to be a point where instead of deteriorating X amount per year, you will get better healthier X amount per year. Again, I hope he's right. I have no idea if he's right, but it seems reasonable with some of the stuff they're working on.

Dr. John Oberg [48:44]: I'm certainly hopeful for that. I haven't seen the science behind it to give me enough to be like, yeah, we're on that path. We're going to get there. I don't study this area deep. Like this is not my area, right? But I want to believe. And so the things that I talk to people about are like, how do you make sure that you are really well educated and that where things are unknown, you're at least educated in making those decisions as best you can.

Randy Lorensen [49:11]: Alright, well let's transition to the fifth F, fun. And go back to the question, if you know you were going to be as healthy or healthier than you are now at 100, how would that change fun? What would be different?

Anthony Marino [49:25]: Well, would build I would I would say that I would build on the fun that I'm that I'm having now. The fun I'm having now will. It's not you're not alone, so you're doing it with friends, you're doing it with family. And so they come along for that ride. Right. So creating, you know, a great atmosphere, you know, enjoying your time with with people you love or enjoy being with. I think that's kind of a continuum. It's not something, well, I'm going to wake up at 90 and it's not having this kind of fun. It's, you know, this community of people that I'm involved with and things that I do, I was just going to be continuation of that, you know, to whatever extent physically I can do that, but it's going to be a continuation. So, and it's the relationship building. You know, my grandkids are eight and younger.

Randy Lorensen [50:20]: Yeah.

Anthony Marino [50:23]: I really look forward to when they're in their 20s. And I want to be part of their existence, not in their way, so to speak. I want them to have some really positive memories and things to talk about and learnings that they could get from me when they're in their 20s. And I hope, pray, I'll be in a position to enjoy that. And that, to me, will be fun.

Randy Lorensen [50:53]: makes me think, you know, like my grandma, she had a bunch of grandkids, a whole bunch of great, great grandkids, a few great, great grandkids, right? And if we can live that long, that'll be commonplace to have great, great grandkids. Or imagine Anthony in however many years with great, great, great grandkids, right? Like passing, multiple, how many generations can we string together? Kind of an interesting thought experiment.

Anthony Marino [51:20]: Yeah.

Randy Lorensen [51:22]: John, you a different?

Dr. John Oberg [51:22]: Yeah, I think along the same lines, I think about like lifetime experiences, lifetime activities. I was like the book Die was Zero, where he talks about, you know, what experiences do you want to have in what decades of life based on what your capability will be. And as a result of reading that book, there's some things I pulled forward to do now, right, that I that I kind of have on my bucket list, but I want to be able to do them at today's level of activity. And so interesting thought exercises around like what decades do I want to be doing what things and you know, I just committed to my youngest son that I'm going to start playing table tennis competitively in my age group to be able to play with him competitively because I feel table tennis is a really good lifetime sport and there's some evidence that it helps with slowing down the mental decline. so there's, think I'm trying to make really thoughtful choices about lifetime things.

Randy Lorensen [52:13]: Yeah, I think the mental decline we maybe haven't talked enough about and some of it if you're working, if you're working on a business and you're excited about the future, that probably takes care of itself. But do you guys do like, I know I play this Sudoku or I play this, I forget what it's called, Super Sudoku, where it starts with nothing on the board and there's other variables and it's more complex or I will play some puzzle games fairly frequently on a tablet, especially if there's something on TV that's I don't really happen to want to watch. And I think that's keeping my brain sharper. But do you guys do anything actively with your brain, with mental fitness?

Anthony Marino [52:52]: Well, I'll tell you this. my wife's father is going to be 92. I think this year still can ride a bike completely with it. And he does the New York times crossword puzzle in pen every single day. He's been doing it for as long as I married 40 plus years and he's been doing it all along that time. So, so the, puzzles are really something. What I do personally, is I'm reading classics. So Shakespeare, you just you name it, biographies and so forth, constantly reading to just keep my mind in my eyes sharp and learn something new. I'm reading The Christmas Carol right now. So Dickens' Christmas Carol right now, timely for this time of year, which is an amazing, an amazing read. So that's what I do.

Dr. John Oberg [53:49]: And I think the science, Randy, that I just read was that Sudoku, doing Sudoku regularly helps you stay sharp for Sudoku and the New York Times helps you to stay sharp for that. But there are some other things that can actually help you stay sharp more broadly. And so there's some emerging science about which things are good at keeping you good for that specialized thing, which can be really helpful, right? Because if the crossword puzzle is something you look forward to, it's really helpful to stay sharp for that for the long term. But I think, you know, more broadly. There are some things you can do to keep you sharp beyond the scope of that particular game. And so I just encourage you to kind of read more about that if you're interested in that. And then for me, I think it's more than just keeping sharp with work, but with friendships, right? Doing things that keep you active socially, which for me, in busy times of life where work gets busy, the social stuff can be easy to let go of a little bit. And it takes a little bit more deliberate. to get into those fun things. I think having activities you can do with friends is really important. Having those golf is a great one. think, you know, table tennis for me is a great one. There's lots of things you can do. I've got this recreational enjoyment thing that I found that I keep this table. I have about 300 things I've now developed where Amber, my wife and I go through a couple of times now we've done it in our relationship. We score what things we love and what things we hate. And I think it's safe to say that I'm not going to be knitting at any point in my entire life based on this. know, exercise I went through, but we both like hiking, you know, and so we're gonna find ways to enjoy more hiking together, both locally and, you hopefully across the globe and so.

Randy Lorensen [55:29]: got another question for you guys. We didn't discuss this question. So what if to live to be 150 and be super healthy, what if you need to either A, have some kind of robot in your body exoskeleton or B, do you have to have a brain chip implant to keep you going or C, both? Are you open to that? Would you do it? Are you hell no? Where do you fall on this?

Anthony Marino [55:58]: Sign me up. Sign me up. You know, life is good.

Dr. John Oberg [56:01]: Yeah, probably not a first mover for me. I'm not going to be the first one to do it, but I'm certainly not going to be far behind.

Anthony Marino [56:07]: Yeah, fast follower for sure. Yeah. mean, that's part of it, right? I mean, we do that now. I take 31 supplements a day. I exercise, I go to the doctor, you know, get checkups. So that's just another, just part of it, part of technological advances, you know? I could text my grandkids, never could have done that 20 years ago. yeah, I'm in, I'm in. And that's, again, that's where a lot of discussion is, in technology. and changes and it's not, I don't want to call it medicine, treatments, know, changes in treatments. I'm excited about it I hope it gets here sooner rather than later.

Randy Lorensen [56:51]: Yeah, I think of my dad. My dad had both hips replaced, I don't know, five, six, seven, eight years ago now, right? And one of them went pretty well and one of them didn't go very well and they dropped him off the operating table and multiple things that, anyway. You know, what if there was a robotic hip that they could just put in and it turns into, know, like, I don't know. I don't know if my dad would go for that. My guess is he wouldn't go for that, but. You guys both sound like you would, John. You're going to be the first person in line, but yeah.

Dr. John Oberg [57:23]: No, not the first. Definitely the third.

Randy Lorensen [57:26]: I might let that one go a little longer. feel I feel a lot about this the same way I did about LASIK. I wanted LASIK for years and years and I finally just I was like, you know before somebody starts operating on my eyes I just like a little more data and I kind of waited on that one probably longer than I needed to but

Dr. John Oberg [57:45]: a little more data and a little more skill, right? Like I was saying, I was the same for life's sake. Like I was like, I was somebody who was like, yep, I'm a yes, but I'm a yes after someone's got a little better practice at it.

Randy Lorensen [57:56]: Yeah. So, all right. I'm curious. I didn't actually know where you guys would fall on that. So the fact that you're both right there. I think I'm in there too, but I would, I actually weirdly might be more hesitant on the two of you on this, which I would not have, I don't know that I would have predicted that. So, all right.

Anthony Marino [58:14]: Well, you'll have your own personal robot wheeling you around the house. So do you think that's coming? Personal assistant robots and so forth. So we'll see.

Randy Lorensen [58:24]: I look, if we really want to go off the deep end, which I know John does in the worst, Dr. John wants to go off the deep end in the worst way possible. So let's go. know, the Matrix is not very far from being possible in my opinion. Like if you think back to the movie and Matrix, it was way ahead of its time and AI, VR, and whatever else are getting so good. They say that when we have 8K that it'll be indistinguishable from real life. I don't know, you know, we'll see. But that could be a future, right? To me that doesn't sound very exciting to be strapped in and living in a fake world, but God, I don't know if you can create it and it's like your own personalized video game and everything you like and enjoy. I don't know, mean, it's... There's a future, there's a future, it seems kind of dystopian to me, but there's a future where that happens, right?

Dr. John Oberg [59:24]: Yeah,

Anthony Marino [59:24]: Yeah,

Dr. John Oberg [59:24]: ready player one.

Anthony Marino [59:24]: you're right. You went off the deep end. Yeah, you did. You went off the deep end. Agreed. We'll see where that takes us. We'll see.

Dr. John Oberg [59:28]: Yeah.

Randy Lorensen [59:29]: Well, something we need, something I think we need to fight against. We got to get Neo in here and keep us beat the Matrix. All right.

Dr. John Oberg [59:38]: You realize this podcast is going to be searchable by by, by Skynet, right? Like just so you know.

Randy Lorensen [59:41]: There we go. There we go. So, all right, the big question. We've been talking about this for about an hour. How long do you think you will live? Actually, let me ask a bet. Let me ask this first question. If I would have asked you this question turn of the century, 25 years ago, what would your answer have been? Let's start there.

Dr. John Oberg [1:00:08]: So my grandparents lived into their 90s, Randy, and that was kind of my hope was to get to the early 90s. And so today I have a goal to live to 105 is the goal. And so, and that could change over time, right? So if science changes, that goal will change too.

Randy Lorensen [1:00:22]: So you've gone from 90s to 105. So we're definitely moving in the right direction. Anthony?

Anthony Marino [1:00:27]: I don't have a plan to die. So I'm just not gonna put a target out there. Why plan to die if you don't have to?

Randy Lorensen [1:00:30]: Love that. I love that. Shit, I don't even want to answer after that question because how come I gotta follow that? What's that? Yeah, well, what would you have said 25 years ago, Anthony?

Dr. John Oberg [1:00:44]: But you have to. You have to, though.

Anthony Marino [1:00:44]: You And what is death? You know, I've always felt that way. know, it, it, I've just never, I just don't give it any thought. It's just, it's an event. It's like going to sleep at night. You know, you, you go to sleep at night and you're not in control of anything. You just kind of, then you wake up the next day. So I don't think about it in terms of life and death. And I just don't have a plan for it. I have a financial plan for it and a plan for my family, but I don't have a, it's like, I'm not setting a target. Just going to keep going.

Randy Lorensen [1:01:24]: Yeah, I was similar to you, John. I've got a couple of grandmas that lived to be 99. My grandpa's died earlier of heart disease. And my thing was always like, boy, I can live to be 100 if I, you know, I just got to stay ahead of the heart disease thing in my family. And I can, you know, can live to be 100. And now that number is at least 150. But really when I start thinking, well, God, if I could live to be 150, that's almost a hundred years from now and the way technology is growing. I don't know, if you can live to be 150, why can't you be 200 or 300? Right? It seems like, it seems like if we can break through that threshold that it goes forever. But Anthony's the best answer I've ever heard from this is I'm not planning on dying. That is.

Dr. John Oberg [1:02:08]: You know, it'd be great to have Christian back and talk about the theological question around that. Cause I guess I don't know that I want to live to 300, 200, like there's, know, that's a, but that's, that's the whole question.

Randy Lorensen [1:02:17]: All right. Well, we've been.

Anthony Marino [1:02:19]: You won't know till you get there. You won't know till you get there. mean, know, people make the decisions today to end their lives voluntarily because of where they are and how they feel and what they don't want to face tomorrow for whatever reason. So until we get there, you know, what's to discuss? You know, you'll know when you know.

Randy Lorensen [1:02:22]: Yeah. All right, listeners, you heard it. There's the wisdom. Yes.

Dr. John Oberg [1:02:45]: That's a little dark way to end there, but that's right. 150 forever. That's the...

Anthony Marino [1:02:50]: No, think of it as a positive way. mean, you know, why plan on a negative? know, plan on the positive. Every, you know, be healthy, be happy, work at it, enjoy it while you're here. It's your only real choice, by the way. You are here, so you might as well enjoy it.

Randy Lorensen [1:03:09]: Yeah, by the way, well, one of the other things we did not talk about that I think really ties into this is gratitude. And, you know, we're about to wrap up, but I really we probably should have spent more time on gratitude. And I think people that live in gratitude are more likely. to live long, long lives and have a more realistic chance, whether it's 100, 150, 200, whatever, whatever number you pick. So listeners, I would encourage you to think about this. Hopefully we've allowed you to think a little bigger and a little longer, a little healthier, little more abundance. and think about how to incorporate that, what steps you can take. And if you're still here, you obviously like us, so download, tell your friends, subscribe, all that good stuff. Go to talesofabundance.com. John, Anthony, it has been a pleasure. So looking forward to next week.

Anthony Marino [1:04:01]: pleasure was all ours.

Dr. John Oberg [1:04:02]: Experiencing.