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Are Luxury Watches Actually a Good Investment? Rolex, Scarcity & the Truth About Value - Amar Dave

Episode 87 · 19 August 2026 · 1 hr 1 min

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Are Luxury Watches a Good Investment? Rolex, Scarcity and the Truth About Value

Are luxury watches a good investment, or are you just paying for status? Amar Dave', co-founder of The Luxury Exchange, has collected watches for more than 25 years. He explains why some Rolex models trade above retail while others lose value the moment you leave the store, and how lab-grown and natural diamonds compare.

Can a luxury watch actually be an investment—or are you just paying for status?

This week on Tales of Abundance, we sit down with Amar Dave' of The Luxury Exchange to talk about watches, diamonds, scarcity, value, and how to enjoy luxury without unnecessarily destroying wealth.

Amar has collected watches for more than 25 years and explains why some pieces hold or increase in value while others can lose 30–50% the moment you walk out the door.

Then in the Abundance Briefing, Randy and Anthony discuss massive AI infrastructure spending, next-generation solar technology, the $101 million XPRIZE for longevity, and AI solving decades-old math problems.

Rolex Investment, Watch Investing and Lab-Grown vs. Natural Diamonds

What you'll discover:

  • What makes a Rolex or other luxury watch valuable — and why scarcity alone isn't enough
  • MSRP vs. real market value, and how to avoid an immediate loss
  • How "buy history" works at luxury boutiques
  • Watches as investments, stores of value, and heirlooms — and why trust matters in an unregulated market
  • Lab-grown vs. earth-mined diamonds, and why lab-grown can cost a fraction of the price
  • How to enjoy luxury while still protecting your wealth

Timestamps

  • [00:00] How quartz nearly destroyed Swiss watchmaking
  • [00:59] Amar and John’s 30-year history talking money
  • [03:24] Watches, family legacy, and collecting
  • [05:00] Buying watches to commemorate milestones
  • [07:00] When “investment watches” become bad investments
  • [09:07] What actually determines a watch’s value?
  • [11:00] Why some Rolex models trade above retail
  • [14:46] How to avoid an immediate loss
  • [15:05] Trust in an unregulated watch market
  • [17:34] Watches as an alternative asset class
  • [19:02] Building a luxury watch portfolio
  • [22:34] Distressed sellers and fair dealing
  • [24:48] Finding rare watches
  • [26:20] Investors vs. collectors
  • [30:21] The “secret watches in the back”
  • [30:35] How luxury boutique “buy history” works
  • [33:04] Luxury purchases and financial planning
  • [36:58] Earth-mined vs. lab-grown diamonds
  • [39:27] De Beers and diamond scarcity
  • [40:49] Why lab-grown diamonds cost so much less
  • [42:23] How to connect with Amar
  • [44:23] Watches as family traditions
  • [45:50] Big Tech’s massive AI spending
  • [53:07] Next-generation solar technology
  • [55:19] $101 million XPRIZE for longevity
  • [57:37] AI solving decades-old math problems
  • [1:01:27] Final thoughts

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About Amar Dave'

Amar Dave' is co-founder and CEO of The Luxury Exchange, an online boutique for authenticated pre-owned luxury watches and lab-grown diamond jewelry. He has been collecting watches for 25 years, often to mark milestones. His primary career has been as a longtime executive with CUTCO Corporation. (Sources: the episode description and The Luxury Exchange's About and Founders pages.)

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Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect some spelling errors in names and terms.

[00:02] could do something no Swiss watch maker had ever managed. It kept near perfect time for $5. And the Swiss had been the world's watch makers for like 400 years. 90,000 people employed, thousands of family shops, centuries of craft. But this courts movement didn't just disrupt them, it nearly erased the entire workforce. By 1984, the Swiss workforce had collapsed to 30,000 people, which means two out of every three jobs in watchmaking were gone. But then something weird happened. The thing that Quartz replaced, the mechanical watch, started selling for more than it ever had. Not because it kept better time. It didn't. Your phone keeps better time than these mechanical watches, but because people stopped buying watches to know what time it is. They started buying them for an entirely different reason. And our guest today, Amomar Dev, is going to talk to us about how he built a business around that very thing. Watches. Amomar, welcome. Glad to have you here. — Thank you. Glad to be here. Gentlemen, — you know, it's so funny. I think about our relationship with watches and it goes back almost 30 years.

[01:07] — We had our first conversation about abundance and money like I'm thinking like 1994 95. Is that right? — Yep. I remember this. Yeah. I think it was about when you asked about gas mileage and the car you were going to — That was a couple of years later. Do you remember that conversation, too? something about a 4ERunner and if this was the right car for the mileage and something. And I I'll let you say what I said to you because I do remember what that the the gist of that one was. — Yeah. You said if I had to think about the gas mileage in that car, I shouldn't be thinking about affording that car. — Yeah. You're basically doing it wrong. You're thinking about the gas instead of your success and what you should be achieving to not worry about things like — Yeah. And I I haven't thought about gas since then, by the way. in in and I' I've I've had a very abundant uh mindset since. But you had like in my life, I tell people all the time, my family, we didn't grow up talking about money. Like I walked in on my parents paying bills one time and they shut the door. My mom gave me a checking account when I was 14 and I didn't and she took me to the bank and that was the end of it. Like that was then she made sure I signed up for a class in college. You were my boss's boss at that point. And you took a very different approach in educating uh young workers about money and I'm really grateful to this day. I tell my kids about it all the time. Do you remember all the different things you helped me through? Because I can remember all of them like it was yesterday.

[02:28] — I don't remember all of them, but I certainly do remember and still feel this way about the the the passion for instructing and enthu, you know, in informing people, especially young people starting out their their work journey, you know, about putting some money back, if you will, saving, investing for the future. And it became a topic of interest, as you know, in our organizations. A lot of the book assignments weren't about how to sell more. It was how to manage your investments and how to make good investment decisions and so on. Trying to create interest in in you guys. You were what 18, 19 in those days. So hopefully a lifelong habit that uh that stuck and you know you introduced me to a financial planner that you had used. You introduced me to books that I read. You know I started reading everything from like Steven CVY the seven habits of highly successful people or highly effective people. I read Tony Robbins, but then I was also reading books like The Wealthy Barber that you introduced me to and I read one called Smart Couples Finish Rich and it was, you know, I read I think you handed me a book called The Millionaire Next Door and the Millionaire Mind by Thomas Stanley that I read and so there was this series of books over a period of years and we made it a part of conversation and then you told me about watches and you you talked about and I I actually found my grandfather's Omega Speed Master, my dad's Seikko and I started collecting these watches and I'm actually wearing a Rolex today that I you helped me to to find that that was kind of a lifelong uh you know bucket list item for me. And I actually have my sons to you know just this year I got them their first Omega by Swatch watches to see if they enjoy wearing watches and we'll give and I've got my grandmother's like you know the Mavado that my grandfather gave her for her engagement and also another watch he gave her for her 25th wedding anniversary with him.

[04:12] And so I've got all these watches in my collection now and it's become an alternative asset class. Like how does that like what's going on with watches as an asset class? — Okay. And you got to tell us what you're wearing too because I I saw you do that. This is smart. — It's a habit. John, I'm wearing an Oddmar Pig 26331 O, which is a rose gold AP. It's my favorite brand. Even though I'm in the business, I do have a favorite brand. I I like them. They're they're limited. They're different. I don't know. From that point of view, it's it's really about wearing something you're not going to see on somebody else's wrist, right? It's just a it's a much more interesting conversation, at least to me. You know, as far as your question, John, I you know, I I need to stay I need to say it. You know, I I've been collecting watches for 25 plus years. And you know, if you remember for me, I I would commemorate in our in our business, the business you and I and Landy Randy worked in. You know, we would do a lot of trips and payoffs and celebratory things for for milestones or campaign success. And I would try to commemorate each trip with a watch purchase. You know, I wanted to remember that trip. I wanted to have a signature piece to say, "Hey, we were in Cabo or we were in, you know, Italy or we were wherever." And that became kind of a thing, if you will, for me. And I started doing that, right? And that got me into it that, you know, you go to the boutique and you'd learn all about it when other people were at the beach or whatever. I, you know, I I'm not much of a beach person anyway. And I was like, let me go to the boutiques. And you'd go down some of these rows and you'd learn all about the different brands and, you know, these people would love to just kind of roll out the red carpet and teach you all about watches. So, I got very interested in the topic and being a bit of a history buff myself, you know, there I learned more about the history of wrist watches and so on and and I and I locked in on the craftsmanship, the the automatic watches you referred to in your commentary earlier that, you know, someone didn't just stamp out something in a minute or a day and say, "Here's your watch." You know, some of these watches, these these really complicated ones, somebody might have gone to work every day for 6 months, a year, two years, you know, and I thought about that that they go to work every day to work on my watch and they go home and like you know how we may take a business problem home, they go home thinking about my watch and then they go to bed thinking tomorrow I'm going to hammer out this part just right or I'm going to adjust this spring or I'm going to do to make it perfect and and to own that you know and then to retain that thing it meant so much more than telling time you know it was someone's care and concern and history so flecting became a passion and a deep interest as you know and I love your Hulk by the way that's a cool watch and so that was a that was the thing that really started the journey for me what what I guess I didn't share is that you know what I learned over that time is that well like anything. I don't know about you guys, but you know, I like sometimes that tastes change, your your preferences change. You know, you get older. I've got some gray hair since those days, John. And so with watches, because they're an asset, you can trade. And when I would take these watches and that I'd purchased wherever we were, I'd say, you know, I'm going to upgrade this one. I'm not wearing it. And I would go in to trade them. A lot of times I took a proverbial bath. You know, I was told at the boutique that this is an investment.

[07:43] this is limited. This is special. And you're of course you're in vacation mindset. So you spend the money, you buy it, you have this elaborate purchasing experience and it's beautiful and you get this awesome box and you get it home and you're like so proud of, you know, whatever. And then a few years later that's worn off and you're thinking, I need something I'm going to wear or I've saw something else I like. And you take it in and you find out you're going to get 50% on a dollar or 30 cents on a dollar. And after doing that a few times, I realized that yes, watches can be an asset class. Yes, they can be investable. Yes, they can be a store of value, but only if you pay the right amount. And so, being a financial person, that became very interesting to me about how do you do this? How do you enjoy these things, these what my parents would have called extravagances? How do you enjoy a $100,000 watch or a $50,000 watch without it becoming a waste or incredibly excessive in in in at least in my you know conservative upbringing mindset and so that's kind of that whole passion evolved into a business and thus you know learning about the asset class itself we learned a lot there and I can I can talk a lot about it I don't know what what direction you want to take with it John but I you know we can talk about it as an investment. We can talk about as a store of value, whatever your, you know, your listeners would be more interested — Omar, I think what would a good place to start is you're talking about paying the right amount, right? And I think people go into a store and there's a Submariner and one of them has a whatever a $10,000 price tag and another one has a 30 or 40 or 50. What's the difference? It's like I don't I I don't have a clue why one is more than the other other than I'm guessing scarcity because that's where my mind goes. But is there more or — Yeah, I I I first of all I think your instinct is exactly right. It is scarcity. That's a piece, right? So So let's back up. I think one of the things that helps you about watches as an asset class is, you know, if you really think about what makes an asset class, one of the most important things is there a market. You know, you can you can say a couch for your living room is an asset because you sit on it and you like it and some designer person did it and you paid some big dollar number and you go that was an investment. If any of us have ever been on Facebook Marketplace or you've gone to a garage sale, there are lots of 20 $30,000 couches that are out there for 500 bucks. You know, they're not a real asset and they're not they're not readily traded. In in the case of watches today, there are many places where there's transparent price discovery. And when you think of that, you know, the last 20, 30 years, things have changed where you can now go on to chrono 24 or watch charts or even Morgan Stanley has a watch index where you can kind of you can get an idea because they track these things. So, when you start to get price discovery, it's just like buying a stock. You know, you you're not paying you can go on E Trade, right? you can pay $29 for a stock trade. So, you pretty much know what you're paying, what your markup is. So, that that element has really created a market.

[10:54] Now, as far as what to pay, it's going to vary. It's going to vary on the brand. It's going to vary on the following. It's going to vary on the material of the item itself. Scarcity is an element for sure, but that's not the only thing. There are lots of watches out there that are quote unquote scarce, but no one's interested in them. So, you can have a watch that there's hundred made, but there's not 100 buyers. And so, you know, that's that's a piece that, you know, yes, is it an asset? Sure, it's an asset, but is it an asset at 100% of MSRP? No. Maybe it's an asset at 30% of MSRP or 40% of MSRP. So, there's that part. when you mentioned the Submariner specifically, John, do you mind holding yours up just for our — John, can you hear me? — Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. That's that John's watch is called That's a Submariner. That's a variant. That's called a hole. That's got the green dial and the green bezel. That watch has been extremely limited over the years, discontinued a couple times, etc.

[12:01] There's a massive falling for the Rolex brand. There's a massive falling for Submariners. And then when you get a really special variant of it, there's an even greater desire and following. But because of the scarcity, because of the heritage of the brand, that watch is never I I never's a long time. I I admit it. I would say it's never going to trade at MSRP ever. So if it was MSRP, I don't know what year your watch is. I can't remember. Let's just say it was $12,000. It's never going to trade at that. if it's if it's real, if it's if it's functioning right, it's always going to trade way over. So, that's a piece that if if if you got it right, if you happen to get it before the the the excitement behind it came out or maybe you're disfortunate, that's an investment piece. And and and the fact is, I believe that piece is going to be an investment piece as long as he doesn't take a diamond getting eaten by a shark or something. So, you've got those two elements. You got the other niche brands. Most of them will never trade above MSRP. There's just not enough of an audience for them. And so, you know, you got to kind of you think about those. There's two different things I guess I'm talking about and I don't want to confuse it. One is the investment element watch that's very rare, very scarce, and a big following.

[13:18] Admar Pay, they make 80,000 watches, give or take a year, maybe it's a little bit more now, compared to a couple million watches that Rolex puts out. So, these are big brands that have been around a couple hundred years. There's a following in the collector world for these watches, but there might be a watch brand that somebody started a couple years ago. They make 10 watches a year. No one knows about. No one's interested in them. It doesn't matter, you know. So, I'm not talking about those brands. Now, what to pay and how to do it right. That's kind of where we come in. And I'm not trying to toot our horn or talk our book, but you know, when we know, you might come to me and say, "I like XYZ brand and I really like this watch." And at the boutique, I'm going to make up numbers now. Maybe it's $15,000. And I would say to you, Randy, that's probably an $8,000 watch. You're like, but they're charging 15 grand at the mall. And I'm going to tell you that as soon as you walk out the door, that watch is worth $8,000. So, A, if you if you know that, you know that you're taking a $7,000 loss for vanity. B, with some clients, we say don't do that unless you know you're going to lose seven grand. If you're willing to wait and you're willing to maybe deal with maybe a pre-owned that's in excellent condition, we can get it for you for $8,000 and we can save you that massive hit. So, we we we try to advise and and kind of educate the client at the same time. I don't know if I answered your question. I hope I did. I know I said a lot. What would what would you recommend they do so that they don't like like I think what you're saying is John's watch he bought at 12 it's worth more than 12 now or just you know you're — I don't know what he bought it for I don't remember — so what whatever the number is right so how do you get on the right side of that — yeah you got to find somebody you trust you know it's it's a it's a tempting thing to just quote unquote do your own research but the reality is I mean it's an unregulated market there's tons of watches out there. So, anybody can call themsel call themselves a watch dealer, you know, and so it really comes down to trust and and you know, for us, our the luxury exchange, I mean, one of the things that got us into this business is that we're customers first. I mean, we're watch lovers, you know. So, as we got into this, we were experiencing what I just said to you ourselves. We like watches. We buy a watch and we go, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe how much I lost on that deal." How do we avoid that loss? And so it becomes very easy to advise a client on that. And and I think at the end of the day, it's sometimes we we'll talk ourselves out of a sale, but you know, it's like, look, I I've had clients where I'm like, I know you think that watch is really cool. That is a guaranteed $20,000 haircut, guaranteed.

[16:04] The second you put it on your wrist. If you want to lose 20 grand, we will find it for you. But as your client adviser, I'd rather not sell it to you. Sometimes, and I said that to John sometimes, like he'll have a client come to us and like, I don't like selling those because you're going to want to trade them back into us. And if we if we sell you a watch you're going to lose 20, 30, 50 grand on and you come back to us to trade it, you're not going to feel very good about that experience. And we are trying to help people avoid that because again, we had it done to us, you know, and we know what that felt like. So, you know, that's just the that's the place we choose to operate in is is we'll give you advice. We might talk you off the watch. Sometimes people say, "I don't care. I want it." And we're like, "Okay, again, I'm going to say one more time to you. You're going to lose your shirt. I don't care." Okay, we said it three times, you know, but that's the big deal. Trust. Finding someone that will actually And the best way to determine, Randy, is what will they buy it back from you for? If they sold your watch for X dollars, what will they give you on trade? That's the best way to know. You know, they got to make a little money. You know, they got to do some work. They might have to spend some money with an authenticator, something something. But if they sell you a watch for 20 and they'll take it back and trade for 10, to me, that feels usery.

[17:23] You know, if there's a small reasonable margin, fine. Yes, people's time's worth money. Sure. But that's the best discovery of the actual price. What will you take it back? Let's let's juxtapose the stock market and the luxury watch market for a second. I'm pretty indifferent to the companies that my investment advisor, you know, with the exception of investing in Elon and maybe Apple for reasons that, you know, my personal reasons, I like those stocks and I like that guy and so on. So besides that, I could care less what Lance invests my money in as long as it's going to appreciate at a a reasonable rate every year. So, I'm all I'm kind of also indifferent with all due respect to everyone here. I'm kind of indifferent to watches, you know. I never I've never was a watch guy. A really cool guy gave me gifted me a a Rolex after a transaction, which I really appreciate and I wear it from time to time. I kind of like it. It's kind of cool, but I'm not a watch guy. But if I would but but but I want to I want to increase the value of my portfolio overall. So, if I were to take 5% 10%, let's say I took a half a million dollars and said, you know, Amar, I don't really care about watches, but here's a half a million bucks. I'm going to give this to you.

[18:45] I'm going to I'm going to have this in a bank account, and I want to invest in jewelry or watches or whatever for the next five years, and I want to make some money. Let's go do it. And I I'll hold the watches here, or you can hold the watches. I could care less. How would you go about that? I mean, would you do something like that? — Yeah, that's a great question. And and by the way, are you wearing the watch that you got for your transition? — No, I just came back. I just came back from my trail trail run trail run slash lumbering walk. — I have my Apple Watch on. — I mean, just so you know, the watch can handle it. I know the watch you got. But anyway, you'll we'll get him there, John. We'll get him there. So, Anthony, your question is really a good one because we do have clients that come to us with that. They say, "Look, I have excess cash. I I don't like where the market is or I'm positioned as much as I want to be. I have real estate. I have whatever. I would like to do something completely different with my money. Can you help me? And so, yeah, we can do that. We can help you with some uh a portfolio that we would help you source and supply. And usually what we do for a client in that case is number one, disclaimers, disclaimers, disclaimers.

[19:49] We're not experts. We can't guarantee future returns. All the fun stuff that goes with that. However, we we I mean, watches are like anything. They're momentum trades. So, so you can tell when there's when there's scarcity, when there's inflation, where there's dollar devaluation, watch prices generally go up. And we've experienced that in the last 8 months. And and it's also affecting cars, by the way, which you can talk about in a little bit. So, what we would do in your case is we'd say, "All right, how much money you want to put in? Okay, these are the dollars. What's your tolerance? Okay, you have a moderate risk tolerance." So, we'd probably purchase three to five pieces and we would have you store them in your safe and we'd say don't wear them, you know? I mean, you can pull them out and look at them like a piece of artwork, but don't wear them because once you take a brand new piece and you wear it, it's now not unworn, right? And our target buyer is a collector. So, we want to get a piece that you don't care what it looks like, by the way. You're never going to wear the thing. It's an asset that you're sticking in your safe like anything else that is a value and you're gonna we're going to bring it out in three or five years because we're expecting that watch to go discontinued.

[20:52] We're expecting the the the limitations on that to to create value because maybe that model is now going to shift to oh my gosh, they changed the dial. You'd be shocked at what the color on a dial does to a watch. And so we do the research on those things like John's Hull with that green dial, green bezel. That's 50% more money than a the same watch with a black because it's just so limited and there's so many people wanting it. So yeah, we do do that for clients on occasion. You might say, "Look, Amar, I I I can do this with 500,000 using your number, but I might need some of this capital back." So, we might say, "Okay, well, let's park some of it in low appreciation stuff like maybe some 10 20k watches. Those are very liquid. You're not going to make a lot of money on those, but it's not going to go away. Then, let's park a little bit in stuff that's a little more liquid. It might take us 6 months to move 100k watch, right, at the correct profit." So, it's it's a little I would I would think about it more like real estate more so than stock investing, but there are a lot of clients that do that, especially now where they're kind of fully invested in the other the other quadrants, if you will, of their of their lives. And and and for a lot of people, they do that and just wear them and they go, I don't care if it makes me money, but if I can wear the watch, I've got X dollar sitting in my bank account. Instead of looking at it on a screen through my phone or my computer, I can look at it on my wrist. There's a lot of people that generally go that route, you know, where they're like store of value versus investable, but we can certainly go that investable route, too. Again, depending on the amount of money and the time — Do you My my nature is to be a bit of a — Do you run into desperation sales where people come to you, they're they, you know, they're they're they got to sell stuff because they need the cash. Yep.

[22:51] — How do you how do you handle those situations? I mean, obviously, it's an opportunity, but you don't seem to be the kind of guy that would, you know, really take advantage of someone, but at the same time, if they've got a watch that is illquid, if you if you will, I imagine those those opportunities present themselves. — They do present themselves, Anthony, and and thank you for acknowledging that. We, you know, yes, there are people who are desperate. Yes, there are people that come to us and I need to get rid of this. You know, we just try to treat everybody with respect. we're we're in the long game here and if somebody's on their knees and they need every penny, you know, we're just we're just not going to be there to say we're going to we're going to kick them a little extra. We just don't need to. And and our hope is that person is not going to be in that situation the next time we encounter them. And so we're going to give them a fair number. We're not going to use their situation against them. We'll give them a fair number. We'll give them the same number if a dealer comes to us to say, "Hey, I want to trade out of this piece with you guys." So, we're going to we're going to be pretty straightforward and we'll tell them that too. This is what the dealer number is and we're going to give you that. Our hope is that we build a relationship and a few years later that person comes around remembers that how we treated them. And and that's partly why we trade on such thin margins by the way with watches in particular because of that very thing. We're in the long relationship game. And we'll tell people, look, we work on five, eight, maybe it's 10% margin if it takes us a long time to find a piece. We're not a jeweler. We're not 20, 30, 50% markup.

[24:15] we're just we're just not going to do that and we don't need to. So, you know, we'd rather build trust and and we have clients that come back to us over and over again and they trust us. So, the work for us is easier, too. Once we have a relationship, we have people that sometimes will send us a text and say, "I would like this watch." And we'd say, "It's six figures." And they say, "Okay, I'll wire you the money." And that's worth a lot. That trust is worth a lot both ways. So, they know they they know we're not killing them on the deal. They know it, but they also know they're going to come back to us over and over because we're going to make it easy for — Do you also do peer-to-peer kind of things? Like someone comes to you and say they want whatever that Ryan Reynolds watch was that he was wearing at the Super Bowl or I forget who I think it was Ryan Reynolds. He said, you know, I really want one of those and you know Ryan Reynolds, but for whatever reason, do you ever hook people up to work that out or do you always are you always in the middle of the transaction? Well, we're in the middle of the transaction because we don't know Ryan Reynolds. But more importantly, you know, I if if you come to me and say, "I saw Tom Brady wearing this watch," which he's a crazy watch guy, right? Tom's a a big collector. You could say, "I saw him wear that dial Daytona on a rubber strap in rose gold.

[25:29] — I want one." Okay, give us a week. It's going to be X and we'll source it for you. We don't have that in stock. It's a super special watch. We had a guy a few months ago, a guy a client. He wanted a watch that looks like it's got Spider-Man on the dial and you know, he's he's a big client of ours and I'm like, "Are you sure you want this watch? I mean, you know, you it's only 500 made and it's a special piece. I think it's a gift." That's what he he was kind of vague about it. I don't think he admit you wanted to say it was for him. Anyway, I said I said, "Mr. Client, this is going to be like 250 grand." Okay. Let me know when you have it. I'll wire you the money. It was It wasn't even a telephone conversation. So that happens quite often by the way. You know, I've se I saw this special watch somewhere. I want it and I have the money so I trust you guys to find it for me. So So it's both, you know, we started this conversation as, you know, this is an asset class. If you if you were to bifrocate your business between people who buy for investment purposes and people who buy for vanity, what would you is it 50/50, 7030? What what what do you maybe it's a a tough tough question to answer. It probably varies.

[26:41] — Yeah. Because because you because you could also address it from the standpoint of what how do they use it from the standpoint of an asset class or do they use it from the standpoint of an investment? Do you know because because there's there's a couple ways to view it, right? One is I have I don't wear a suit to work anymore. I wear casual clothes. I'm around people that are casually dressed. How do I stand up? How do I have a conversation piece? How do I, you know, I mean, as as as men, I think we're all old enough to remember the days of suits and ties. And [clears throat] it wouldn't be uncommon to go, "Hey, man, is that a new suit?" Or, "I like your tie." And and you know, trade trade kind of information about, "Oh my gosh, that looks really comfortable. What material is that?" I mean, that was a kind of an icebreaker, right? And and now that's gone. It's like, "Oh, you're wearing Lululemon pants. Okay, cool." You know, or some stretchy fabric t-shirt or whatever the heck people do these days. But but that's a cool watch. John, how many times, John, are you out and about and someone says, "Whoa, I have never seen that before. What is that?" You know, it probably happens. That's a Wait, that's a Rolex, right? That's a Submariner, but I've never seen it in green. Blah blah blah. It's So, so the asset sometimes, to answer your question, Anthony, I'm not trying to be obtuse. It's it's the store of value piece, but it's also the door opener, the conversation starter asset that gets you in a conversation you might not normally have with somebody. As far as people who who straight invests and never wears the watch, 10% of our clients, Mac, — I mean, most of our people are enthusiasts. And I and I'll tell you this, I tell most people, you know, buy what you like. We'll find the right price, the price point for you. If you really like it, we'll find it at the right number so you can enjoy it.

[28:22] — But this should be about enjoyment. And and I don't want to I guess I was just skipping to say one of the things we love about our business is that, you know, we're at those milestones with people, those happy events, and when someone gets an engagement ring from us or when they get a watch, it's usually they got a promotion or they're retiring or they sold their company in your case or or something like that that commemorates, you know, one of those achievements, those happiest moments of life kind of thing. So, I personally kind of say, "Hey, you've done well financially. Enjoy the thing. Enjoy the asset, you know?" — Yeah. Like, put it on your I guess I guess that's the third category of people, you know, the Tom Brady types and and others that are just collectors. They just love watches. They're collectors. They may or may not wear them, but they just love the look of them and and they are beautiful pieces of jewelry. I mean, they're it's a they're amazing. So, yeah, I get it. Well, well, you know, Anthony, I'll add one more point because you kind of you mentioned it. For me, it started a commemorating those trips with my my sales guys, my top guys like John and then and then it became, you know, as my as I had children. I don't know about you guys, but you know, once we had three children and they're out of the house now, but when they're in the house and they were little, you know, everything is kind of shared, right? I mean, you know, whether it's your the house is kind of a place for the kids, the car is the shuttle. I mean, everything is community property, if you will. And and and I always I was like, well, what's mine? And, you know, it was like, okay, I have a couple of watches that are mine. I have a car that only seats two people. That's mine.

[29:58] Everything else is the family's property, right? Of course, I say all that to you. And then, of course, as my kids got older, my son's like, "Dad, can I drive this car? Dad, can I wear this watch? So, the theory kind of blew up in my face after the fact, but but early on it was great justification for me to try to get some of those pieces for myself. So, you know, that's that's part of it. Mar, in a previous conversation, you talked about how a lot of people get to the better watches, and as I recall, there's like the secret watches in the back that aren't in the display case. Do you want to I I kind of remember that, but do you want to fill people in on — Yeah, you know. Yeah, that's Boy, that's I'm not going to make any friends with this one. So, what I'm referring what I was referring to, Randy, is unfortunately those special pieces, the one that you know that that the the guy like Ryan Reynolds or Tom Brady could walk in and and buy, we can't, you know, us quote unquote normal folks. And and the only way you skip the line to get that special piece unfortunately is either wait forever or you spend a bunch of money buying stuff that you don't want and they call that buy history.

[31:09] Now, most of them will not admit that they do this, but I'm telling you from experience, they all do it. You may walk in and say, "I want to buy this watch. It's my 60th birthday and I'm retiring and my wife wants to get me something awesome or some story." And you point to the watch in the catalog. Oh, Mr. Lawrenson, we don't have that watch here. I can assure you if you said if I were to buy like couple of tennis bracelets and a couple of necklaces and a ring, would you have the watch then? and and and and unfortunately the tune changes to you know what we can have that in a couple days sir and it and the entire thing shifts because what they want to do they they know they don't have a lot of us watches right so they're trying to maximize that customer value which every business is trying to do but the approach here is I'm going to put you on a list and so you're going to keep coming back to check in and say did the watch come in did you finally get one I'd really like to try it out and while you're there hey have you seen this watch. Have you Have you seen this jeweler we just got designed that just came in? You know, they're counting on you to keep coming in and you and you'll spend money by default and over time the hope is someday you will get that watch.

[32:18] And I've got lots of clients in that situation that they thought, well, I'm on the list for this watch. I'm like, how long you been on the list? 5 years. And I can get that watch for you tomorrow. Yeah, but I don't want to pay more than than MSRP. Okay. Well, how was how how is how much is waiting 5 years worth to you? I mean, most of us have reached the stage in our lives where we don't want to wait and and and you know 5 years is a long time and and there's some watches you'll I'm just telling you if you walk into Rolex today and you try to get on the list of something like what Johnny has on his wrist, they'll tell you, "Yeah, sure. 3 years." I'm going to tell you right now, you're never getting that watch. it's unlikely you're ever gonna get that watch from that boutique. — And so Mar — this happens for cars. This happens for other things too. And so it does if I'm a listener and this is a new conversation for me like put this in the context of like savings more broadly cuz that's where you and I started the conversation 30 something years ago and then pivot into like what are steps 1 2 and three not 9 10 and 11 but like how if I were just interested in getting my toe in the water. So first you know how does this fit with everything else and then second what's steps 1 2 and three.

[33:33] — So let's first talk about the the part about that relates to savings. So as you you and I started as young investors and now we're older investors but at the end of the day retaining the value of your work is important especially the financial part. And so step one is making a decision that you are going to enjoy these things that you want to enjoy at the lowest possible cost. which means buying them correctly, you know, and and and and enjoying those assets in the right way. And I say enjoying them like if you buy a great watch, use it as a networking piece, use it as a door opener, use it as a confirmation piece to make new connections for your business. Do it. It's it's they're fun things to talk about and it's and it's such an opaque world that people love learning about that stuff, especially us dudes, right? So, I mean, it's targeted us. So, that's the first thing is make that decision. And I think that's a really important one because then you can really enjoy the abundance that you guys are talking about in these podcasts without losing a bunch of money so you can experience, I think, a better life for less. As far as the other steps go, I think find somebody that you trust that will hold your hand through the process. Don't go it alone. There are too many ways to lose your shirt going it alone. And I've got many stories for another podcast about how people are like,"Well, I researched this and I did this and I can blah blah blah." And then they always come back to, "Wait, how much did you pay for that?" Or, "Hey, I thought I could sell this watch myself and I lost all my money." And so, you know, I think steps steps one, two, and three are all the same. Once you've committed to the if this is not your business, find someone you trust to help you and then and then follow that and and and don't don't risk all your money to save 500 bucks or a,000 bucks. I've had this client conversation so many times. You know, you might pay $500 more, maybe you'll find a deal for $500 less on your own. Are you really willing to risk $500, I'm sorry, 20 or $30,000 to save Because that's what it comes down to. I I I I tried to save the money and I lost all my money because I bought a fake.

[35:42] And we've had clients come in and say, "Hey, I want to trade this in." We're like, "I'm sorry, this is not authentic. How much did you pay for it? 10 grand. I was on a cruise. I'm sorry that watch isn't real. Like, it's worth nothing." That's the worst conversation to have with somebody, by the way. So, that's that piece. The other piece is, you know, become a student of these things. If you're really interested, learn about the watches. Learn about why you want that watch. Learn about it so you can take tell the story to your friends cuz the story is the the more fun part, right? I mean, wearing it cool, but explaining it, why you bought it, how you got it, what it represents to you. That's really the fun, I think, the enjoyment you can share. — Yeah. Same thing with cars. It's it's it's not about what you pay. It's it's really about what its value is after you've used it. That's the real issue. The differential between those two things, what you pay and what it's worth after you're done with it. That's where you protect yourself, right? And I don't know that we have time for this today, but we do the same thing with cars. John's heard about a lot of this. It's not just investments. It's can you enjoy an exotic car for the price of a, you know, a modest car? And the truth is you can if you're careful, if you buy the right model, if you limit your mileage, take good care. Right. Do do we have time to talk about the dynast?

[36:58] — Let's take two minutes. tell people why why you got into that cuz I think there was like you know one of the things we've talked about over time is like earth mine versus lab grown diamonds and what's happening give us the quick — this this is the big one in my mind in terms of abundance and enjoying your money better lab grown diamonds have been around 60 years or so mostly if you this may take more than two minutes John diamonds the majority of diamonds that come out of the earth are used for industrial purposes sandpaper cutting they're the hardest substance on earth they're used for lots of these kinds of applications s in industry. A small percentage of them are gem quality and they cut them and they polish them in that way. What's happened in the last 10 years or so is lab drill diamonds that were used for industrial applications have they've discovered ways to polish and cut and adjust to to make them gem quality. And what what that's really done for people is really pull the covers back that a a diamond that comes out of the earth and a diamond that's lab grown are physically identical. It's like ice from a freezer, ice from a glacier. They're the same product. The difference though, the difference is it's unveiled. It's uncovered the reality that earth diamonds if if you will, are not a scarce product. There millions and millions of carrots come out of the earth a year and they don't go away. They've there was never scarcity unless it's the hope diamond or some amazingly rare piece. Diamonds essentially are, you know, massively supplied and and the supply is only growing. So there's no investment value in diamonds. And most people hate saying that, especially if you bought your wife an engagement ring or you bought yourself a piece of jewelry. You don't want to hear that. But but it's the truth. So, so why spend 5x 10x for an Earthmind diamond when you can get similar quality for so much less? And and that's really why we got into that.

[38:54] It's the value proposition of the two. It's it's just there's just no comparison. I mean, again, why waste your money is really the question, right? And so, that's why we got into that business. And and and the last part of it is most of our clients for watches were men and many of them wanted to buy something for the women in their lives and diamonds were the most obvious choice you know. So that that's why we got into that space and the concepts follow you know we we advise people on don't pay up for this level of quality since you can't tell the difference etc etc. We do the the same advisor approach — Didn't the beers dump diamonds? They had an excess of diamonds and they dumped them in the ocean. They've done there's a lot of rumors about Debeers. So So Randy Debeers started the whole diamond thing, if you will, about 80 years ago with the most incredible ad campaign about diamonds are a girl's best friend and that you should spend three months salary on an engagement ring. They basically imprinted that on our generation. And over time, you know, they got into trouble for that because they they were really controlling supply. Whether they dumped them in the ocean or just kept them locked away, they created an artificial market for diamonds and and thus propped up their values. What people don't know is Debeers also tried to get into the lab grown diamond space because they realized that was the future. But it was in such conflict with who they were and how they had positioned themselves in the market. They couldn't bridge the gap of they, you know, all the other history that was built up was their diamonds are the best and blah blah blah. they they couldn't live in both spaces. So, they got out of the lab grown diamond business and well and they're suffering.

[40:33] The thing the thing that uh for our age group may be different is we we never really saw lab grown diamonds on on fingers or necklaces or bracelets. And today, you know, it's it's almost 70% of the engagement ring market in this country is lab grown. So, — what's the difference? — It's not a faded, it's a thing. — What's the boy roughly? Maybe maybe 1/4 loud grown to earth's diamond. It's inc and it's incredible because you can't tell the difference without a machine. Anthony, when I bought Julie's ring, she had made these comments about whoever Jason Jason Staithm's wife is, the ring that she has, — and I looked this up. She was like, I love that ring. Well, it was a4 million dollar ring. And I was like, "Yeah, I don't I don't think that's in the — But I went to a lab growing place and they built they pretty much built that ring and it was a lot less than it was it was a lot less than 250. Let's put it that way. And they pretty much rebuilt the whole thing.

[41:38] — you probably could have got a a Lamborghini for the for the savings. — Yeah, probably. — Yeah. So I'm I'm a big — Randy, we need a testimonial from you, man. That's that's awesome. it's an amazing cool asset class to watch. I think you know it's like check it out if if maybe it's part of your portfolio. Maybe it's part of your passion. Maybe it's part of just uh you know something to to look at on the internet and check out. But for me it's about you know the passing on generation to generation you know those moments. And so it is certainly about uh you know one more one more way to enjoy abundance. So Randy, anything else you think we should do today? — No, just Amar, how do how do people find — It's a great question. You can either go to our website, John, are you going to publish this or post it or — we're going to put the link right in there, but you can go ahead and say if people are listening, — we we just put in the luxury exchange. That's our company. You can check us out there. And from there, if you have questions, you can email or call us.

[42:43] Happy to talk to anybody. That's part of the fun of being in the advisory role that we find ourselves in that we really love just meeting interesting people and watch people are really interesting and people that are buying jewelry are usually celebrating something incredible and that's always fun to hear about. So yeah, please uh check the link out. You're not bothering us. No cost to consult or ask questions or even if you have a watch you want to know just know how much it is. Just just call us up. Say I want to sell this. What do you think it's worth? Happy to help you out. — Great. Thank you so much with us. — Hey guys, it was a blast. And Anthony, put that Rolex back on, man. [laughter] — Okay. All right, listeners, stick around for a minute. We'll be right back after the break. — Take care, guys. Thank you for your — Thanks, Mark. It was great. — Here are Tales of Abundance. We know that fitness is just as important as money or milestones. It's one of our five Fs, but lots of other things. Taking care of my body while I build my life is one of the more timeconuming and difficult goals to chase. That's why we're partnering with AG1. It's a daily drinkable habit less than a minute that's formulated with 75 plus vitamins and nutrients and designed to support energy, digestion, and immune defense.

[44:00] It even has a few grams of protein uh that we're all chasing these days. And if you want to try it with our affiliate link, you'll also receive a free AG1 flavor sampler plus vitamin D3 plus K2 with your welcome kit when you first subscribe. A $72 value. Go to from the break. He must have got lost again coming back from the bathroom. But Anthony, you know, we just had Amar on talking about watches as an investment. And I had a pretty cool story a friend of mine told me a couple weeks ago. There was a group of us and we were together and somebody posed the question of coming of age things for young men. And my friend said his plan, he's got young kids, but he has a plan where he's going to buy a really nice watch like a Rolex or whatever it's going to be. And he's going to have a talk with his son about keeping time and the value of time and how important time is. and he's going to say, "You are now this. You are now our family's timekeeper." And for like three or six months, the kid is going to be in charge of keeping time, keeping everybody on time, organizing the family, and then at the end of that is going to be his coming of age. He's going to give him said watch as his as a family heirloom. And I thought that was a pretty cool use of a watch and teaching a lesson at the same time. and coming of age. I wanted to mention on the, you know, during a Mars thing, but I didn't I didn't know where to insert it without ruining the flow. So anyway, — thought I would and we talked about that, you know, life marking life events with an asset purchase and watches are a particularly good vehicle to do that. So that's a nice story.

[45:44] — Yeah. All right. Well, you wanted to talk about big tech spending on AI. Talk to us, — man. I this article came up this morning in the Wall Street Journal and it you know as a um former business owner it really struck me you know they they've talked about the valuation of the these tech companies and the amount of money that they're spending and and I was shocked by the um the actual amount that they've spent to date meaning this is either liabilities that they've taken on by paying leases on on data centers or fabs and so on and so forth and and the long-term debt that they've acquired to fund these things. And I was shocked by how little it is. It isn't even a trillion dollars. It's about 800 billion right now. So despite all this discussion about how much they're spending and these valuations and I say only they've only spent to date are committed to spend to date 800 billion. That's what's showing up on their balance sheet. So when you go to invest in in these stocks and you you look at the cash flow of a company you you value it based on its cash flow and that's what is what they're showing on their balance sheet. However, the dirty little secret is below the line that has yet to hit their balance sheet is about of future expenses that they have signed up for. So, a trillion of it is just for leases on buildings, fabrication facilities, data centers, and the like for leases for those buildings. They don't show up on the balance sheet, but they're committed to buy those to spend that money down the road. The other side, there's a $1.5 trillion in the purchases of things. This is equipment to power the the data centers.

[47:50] These are the chips, the memory and the processing chips and things like that. So, the point of all this is is the If they are right, they are going to create so much abundance in this universe because all this spend flows through eventually to the public in the form of intelligence, jobs, products, productivity, and so on and so forth. It's just a tremendous unprecedented investment. Nothing even comes close in today's dollars. World War II cost half as much as this to the United States in today's dollars. If they're wrong and the demand isn't there for the use of artificial intelligence or the productivity gains are not made, then we could be in for a heap of trouble. So, it's either going to create tremendous abundance or it's going to wipe out abundance. I'm in a camp that's going to create abundance because I think the people running these businesses are smarter than the people 2000 when we had the the first technology bust, if you will. These these these folks seem to really know what they're doing. So, I'm I'm on that side of the equation. But as an investor, I would, you know, I'm going to look at these companies like Microsoft, Amazon Chat, OpenAI, Anthropic, Amazon, Meta, even even um a little bit differently with a little more caution as I invest my portfolio I I think it's going to create abundance and even if it crashes, it's going to add to abundance, right? Anytime we spend money on infrastructure, that is money well spent long term. And if you think about what they're spending on, you know, yes, it's the coding and the energy and all of that stuff, but these companies all of a sudden we're building energy. And I've talked about this many times. If you want to see a like financial well-being, you look at the amount of energy they produce and their finances tend to be right in align. It is the greatest predictor there is of how well off a a country is financially. And all of a sudden we're creating nuclear again. Like we just haven't been placing nuclear and there's multiple in these small nuclear reactors. You know we are putting solar all over the place. There's now, you know, stuff out in the ocean. We're improving batteries. We're we're going to space. There's I don't know what I'm forgetting. I'm forgetting a whole bunch of things that are working simultaneously. geothermal.

[50:30] The world's energy supply is going up and that's good for everybody, right? Cuz that is a cost of living and all of that's going to go down. Chips are going up and we have chips in everything. Now, I know you're not as bullish on robots as I am, but those robots need chips. And I would look at what is Elon building, right? Elon is, yeah, he's building robots and cars and spaceships, but he's building power. either the gas thing that he you know he brought back from Germany and the things he's taking apart the solar all of the different things all of those bottlenecks he's not the only one but he's building chips are a big big choke point if you remember during co car companies couldn't ship new cars because they didn't have chips so he's building a terapab that's going to build chips all of those choke points are getting taken care of you know and a lot of chips is turning sand into a computer chip and all of that is going to create abundance in the world. Now, will these investments work? That I don't know for sure. You know, like we think about a lot of these things, the railroads, which really changed America in so many ways. Most railroads went broke. Most railroads didn't make it.

[51:40] But all of that money flew into making making railroads. And therefore, once they were built, the train tracks didn't go away. The engines didn't go away. A one railroad went under. another railroad that was run better, bought up the resources, and all of a sudden, American citizens benefited because we had rail. Yes. Some of the rich people that invested lost money. But anytime we're building infrastructure, I think it's probably money well spent. — Yeah, I'm sure it is. The big difference today for these these specific companies that I mentioned, it's the first time that they've really dipped into the debt market to fund some of their stuff. They had they had built all of all of these companies for the most part and they're as they they grew during the the 2000s they funded their growth through their free cash flow and for the first time they're really hitting the debt market. The it's a complex debt market. Most of it is layered off onto um third parties that are actually like Meta's um Louisiana um data center. Meta is going to own 20% of that 1700 football fieldsiz data center and private equity is going to own the 80%.

[52:58] So they're slicker than cat in terms of the way they're funding these things. But um I think it's just very interesting in the stories just now unfolding. So I'll leave it. — All right. Well, our next story along those lines, you know, solar panels, we've got the traditional solar panels and you know, they're fine, right? They're about 22 to 24% efficiency. Solar panels are getting cheaper and cheaper. If we would allow the ones in from China, they would be cheaper yet. But there's a It's funny. I put solar on my roof a couple years ago and I looked into this Japanese product. It's called It's like Paravkite. I don't know if I'm saying it right, but they're silicone solar panels. And there were writeups about it back then about how it was something it was going to be 50% better than the current solar panels and 50% cheaper, but it was still a long ways away because they just they weren't durable. The current solar panels last a long time and these wore out very quickly. Well, they seem to be solving that problem and they think by 2033 they're going to be not only longlasting but will be more than 50 as as efficient as current solar panels. So, I mean, I I think solar, you know, I think it could go down another 10x in price from here, which pushes energy down. And, you know, the world has way more sunlight than that hits the earth. I forget it's many many more times sunlight hits the earth every year than what all of the planet uses in energy. So, I — you made a good point in the last conversation about things improving, you know, chasing energy solutions and this is another example of it. this, you know, these much more efficient solar panels capture more of the sun's energy than a current solar panel. And right behind these guys will be someone else that figures out how to improve on the tandem PV solar panel. They'll come up with their their own version of this.

[54:51] It'll be better yet. And in 20 years, who knows where we're going to be. But the the race to improve technology never ends. From the moment we discovered fire to where we are today with AI, you know, it's technology is ever improving. So I think this is great and I would love to see everybody have a solar panel on their house, on their car, however they can to convert the free energy in the sky to uh power. Well, our next story is going back. Peter Diamandis has an organization called the X-P Prize. And previously, the biggest X-P prize ever was Elon Musk put up $100 million for carbon capture. Now, this one is $101 million. So, the biggest one and it's a contest and the the objective is to add 10 healthy years to your life. uh they have cut it down to 20 finalists that have entered clinical trials and different teams from the US, South Korea, Japan, China. And for the next few years, they're going to be running clinical trials of evaluating therapies to restore muscle, cognitive, immune function in adults aged 50 to 90.

[55:59] So again, 10 at least 10 years of healthy lifespan and not just lifespan, but healthy lifespan. So I I think this is really exciting. more abundance stacking on top of each other. — Yeah, that I mean again and this is another race. Uh you know Rogan had a guy named I think it was Silver was his last name. He was a scientist from Harvard. He talked about clinical trials right now that are going on at Harvard in mice by you know doing whatever they do with cells. They're able to reverse the aging of mice in terms of their actual biological age. improved their cognitive function, their physical function, their eyesight, and so on and so forth. Their biggest uh roadblock is, you know, federal funding. The current administration has cut back on a lot of funding. Uh most of the funding is coming from private uh donations, but it's everywhere in every lab in the country. People are chasing, you know, longevity. I think as a 70-year-old, I think it's a great thing. Hurry up is all I can say, you know.

[57:06] — yeah, it's uh it's going to be very interesting where this goes, but it seems like there's just there there's so much good stuff happening there. Another X-priseze, by the way, that they're doing right now that's underway is they are trying to get people to submit movies that show an abundant future, similar to Star Trek shows a very abundant future. And so many of the sci-fi things though have a such a dystopian whether it's you know Terminator or it doesn't matter which one they almost all of them have some kind of a dystopian future. So they also have a big X-P prize of creating movies to promote more abundance which I think really aligns with us. So I you know I love that concept as well. But our our last topic of the day, and this is Open AI's Astra, which is a new model that you and I aren't allowed to use yet, I don't think, Anthony, but it solved 10 decades old math problems and did it for $2,000 worth of compute. So, 10 math problems that humans have been trying to solve for, well, decades since they started going after them. And for two grand, they solved these. Um, the benchmark was organized by mathematicians at Harvard, MIT, Princeton, you name it, right? Multiple places. And I don't know. I mean, this is this is pretty cool. I mean, it's hard for me to even comprehend what solving maths means for the world and all the things that opens up, right? I mean, this is just one story. There's a there's a 23-year-old college student, his name is Liam Price. He solved a 60-year-old unsolved math problem in like 15 minutes by using AI and he put together a prompt that used mathematical jargon that I can't even pronounce. And you know in his dorm room he solved this 60-year-old math problem. So and this is I mean we're just getting started here.

[59:06] You talk about creating abundance when you when you have a 60-year-old problem that Einstein and Oenheimer and all these phys physics geniuses couldn't solve and he does it in a in his dorm room on a Mac. It's freaking amazing to me. I have no conception of what these things are and what they can be used for. But whatever the future was going to bring us, it's going to be here sooner than we think. Um because math is at the core of everything that we do. — Well, yeah. Everything turns into math. once ma once it's math, all of a sudden physics improves, chemistry improves, biology improves, right? We were just talking about lifespan. What does this do for different nutrition or medicines or whatever else, the understanding of the human body, right? like once we can unlock this stuff, you know, or physics like we just we haven't had the major major physics breakthroughs in 80 years and you know and there's there's theories that we took a wrong turn somewhere. I tend to lean in that direction, but I'm not you know good enough at physics to to say that with you know with my chest out I guess. Uh but what happens when that reverses and all of a sudden it's like hey you guys made a wrong turn 80 years ago and now with all of this information that unlocks this and that and the chemistry and you know we'll have better materials better just better everything. So again I just man there's so there's so much going on in the world. It's it's it's really hard to cut these down to a few topics each week, but — it really is, you know, and just to cap this story off, this 23-year-old, by the way, had little or no formal math.

[1:00:51] I mean, he just use the technology. He figured it out and voila, there you have it. So, imagine people with math training and higher intellect, what they're going to be able to accomplish in the not too distant future. It gives me a lot of hope for sure. — All right. So, and by next week, if if that kid can do it with no math training, by next week, I'm I'm expecting you to come back with at least one one problem solved. One six-year-old problem solved. That's your bar. — Okay. I'll uh maybe I can get that $ 101 million um uh X prize. I'll start working on it. Let me call Claude right — Lince, thank you for spending this time with us. As always, uh download, tell your friends, and uh until next week, go out and spread a little abundance.