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Why Most Business Owners Can’t Sell Their Business

Episode 72 · 6 May 2026 · 1 hr 5 min

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Exit Planning: Why Most Business Owners Can't Sell Their Business

Exit planning is always important and never urgent, until it is. Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino sit down with Steven Huskey, a Certified Financial Planner and Certified Exit Planner. They cover why so many owners can't sell on their own terms, how to find your financial finish line, and what life looks like after the sale.

Most entrepreneurs spend decades building a business only to realize it is unsellable the moment they are ready to walk away. In this episode, we sit down with Certified Exit Planner Steven Huskey to break down the "moving target" of business succession and why the most successful exits are planned from day one. We explore the critical shift from traditional valuations to EBITDA multiples, the "freedom gap" in personal finance, and why your team—not just your revenue—is your most valuable sellable asset.

We also dive into a high-stakes "Abundance Briefing" on the latest AI disruption. Anthropic’s rumored "Mythos" model has reportedly bypassed decades-old security vulnerabilities, raising massive questions about the future of digital sovereignty. Finally, the team debates the timeline for moon mining and whether we are looking at a new gold rush or a 20-year distraction.

How to Sell Your Business, What a Certified Exit Planner Does, and the Freedom Gap

What you'll discover:

  • Why exit planning starts years before you sell, and who belongs on your advisory team
  • Planning 3–5 years ahead to reduce capital gains and depreciation recapture
  • How much is enough? Finding your financial finish line and closing the freedom gap
  • Keeping key people through a growth period and an exit, and why some businesses sell for zero
  • Life after the sale: letting go, loneliness and finding new purpose
  • In the Abundance Briefing: Anthropic's Claude Mythos and AI safety, and Artemis II and the return to the moon

Timestamps

  • [00:00] Why most business owners never sell on their terms: meet Steven Huskey
  • [01:08] What exit planning is, and why it matters
  • [02:06] Founding Bluewater Dental Advisors with a 1-, 3- and 5-year plan
  • [03:03] Step one: get organized and build your advisory team
  • [06:02] How your age and stage of life shape your exit
  • [09:53] Planning 3–5 years ahead to cut capital gains and depreciation recapture
  • [10:50] Burnout and the risk of taking the first offer
  • [11:49] Keeping key people through a growth period and an exit
  • [13:45] How much is enough? Finding your financial finish line
  • [15:45] A cautionary tale: the $2 million practice that lost its value
  • [17:40] Who to talk to: exit planners, financial advisers and CPAs
  • [18:37] S corporations, basis and what you actually keep
  • [19:34] The freedom gap: what's your business worth vs. what you need?
  • [20:32] Life after selling: letting go and finding new purpose
  • [25:24] Building your team: bookkeeper, CPA, financial adviser and banker
  • [26:43] After the exit: managing a lump sum and the surprises owners face
  • [30:17] Overcoming the age gap with older clients
  • [32:11] Beware of tax schemes: tax avoidance vs. getting rid of tax
  • [33:43] Being proactive: blogging to dispel myths
  • [35:38] Valuations: why some businesses sell for zero and others for 10x
  • [37:28] Will AI shrink valuations? Chamath on predicting long-term revenue
  • [40:42] Always important, not urgent until it is
  • [41:28] Where to find Steven Huskey
  • [42:47] Break — Sponsor: AG1
  • [43:41] Abundance Briefing — Anthropic's Claude Mythos and AI safety
  • [49:47] Could we see an AI disarmament treaty?
  • [50:34] Two founders, $400 million in revenue in under two years
  • [54:04] Artemis II: why go back to the moon now?
  • [1:02:37] Did we really land on the moon in 1969?
  • [1:04:22] Wrap-up and disclosures

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About Steven Huskey

Steven Huskey is a Certified Financial Planner and Certified Exit Planner, the two designations he describes in the episode. He founded Bluewater Dental Advisors and works with other business owners through Huskey Financial. He hosts the Portfolio Pulse podcast.

Views expressed are the guest's own and are not investment advice.

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Related episodes

Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect some spelling errors in names and terms.

[00:11] Abundance. Uh we have special guest Steven Huskey here today and I just want you to think we have a lot of entrepreneurs in the crowd and there's there's a story as old as entrepreneurship that we have the wealthy entrepreneur. They're maybe 50 years old. They're sitting in their doctor's office and they've spent their whole life building this business and sacrificing and missing birthdays and, you know, baseball games and they've got this wealth, didn't take, you know, hardly ever took a vacation and now they're facing heart disease. They're 50 years old and, you know, how did they get here, right? Um, they c they have a hard time. They can't sell their business. It's too dependent on them. You know, they can't step away because everything falls apart. and our guest today can help you start thinking about and planning for some of this stuff. Um, so John, you were on you were on Steven's podcast previously. You want to take you want to give give people a little insight here? — Yeah, sure. I mean, I I was just excited. I think exit planning is something that uh I think people hear the term regularly but don't maybe fully understand what exit planning is or why that's important if you're a business owner or certainly why you should be thinking about it in the early stages of starting a business. And I think, you know, for for I think most I'm going to guess that Steven's going to tell us it's never too early to start with exit planning. But Steven, why don't you just tell us like what is exit planning?

[01:32] When should we start? And isn't that just something for venture capital companies and like private equity firms or is exit planning for other people — Thanks, Dr. Ober. I appreciate it. I think it's important to be considering what your exit strategy will look like from the moment you start your business. You know, we we kind of come into it with a business plan or a proposal. You know, maybe we're looking for investors, maybe we're doing things on our own, but it's just like I consider your business like a penny stock and you're looking to buy it as low as possible, starting it from scratch and then selling it at its highest value and to get the most out of it. You know, you want the highest amount of reward for amount of risk you took to start this thing. And so, like when I started Bluewater Dental Advisors, um you know, I I thought about what's my one-year plan, three-year plan, 5year plan, and when when do I want to get out of this thing? Obviously, it's a moving target. It shifts a lot based on where I'm seeing the growth patterns and what my clients need from me. — But eventually at some point I'm gonna have to find either a successor who's already in this business or, you know, some third party who's already doing it much better than I am and wants to buy my business up for market share. So I would say it's important to think about exit planning from the day you get started. But it's a it's a moving target. It always changes. Um there's many doors you can walk through, you know, to to discover the best course of exit for you. And it's important to plan with someone who deals with these things every day and speaks your language from an industry perspective, too.

[02:55] — So, where do I start if I'm starting a business today? Like, what parts do I really need to think about with exit planning today on day one? — I think the easiest and and I wouldn't really call it the easiest. I think the first thing you should do is really just get super organized. Who are the folks on your team who you value their council that have been in this space for a while? Can you align yourself with different professionals who know you and your family and your business and your organization as a whole and speak to them regularly? Whether it's quarterly just check-ins, but have someone in your corner that understands the business and that you can make positive ripple effects with every future move that you want to make in your business. — Is it safe to say most business owners skip it? And if so, why do you think that is? I would say it's usually in the back of their mind, but it is like a lower on the priority list because it is such a future future-based question that's always out there and it's something that isn't even as close to them as sometimes retirement planning feels and they're so ingrained in the day-to-day of the business and they're they're focusing on today's problems and getting some solutions for those things than they are with exit planning. So to answer your question, I think exit planning is is always around, but it's never really the main priority.

[04:11] — What are the what are the most frequent questions you get early on with people? — Well, what is my business worth? — Like they don't know. It's the greatest asset by value on their balance sheet, their personal balance sheet. But a lot of times they don't have any idea. They don't know. Well, for dentistry, for example, since I work in that space a lot, you know, the the DSOs and the private equity world kind of changed the game in terms of of what they can receive at the at the exit table. It used to be anywhere from 70 to 90% of one year's collection in a dental practice. And now, because of DFOs and private equity, it's usually some form of a of a multiple of EBITa, free cash flow with adbacks, all those different things. So, I think the best thing you can do to be prepared is plan for every option available to you at exit, whether it's an inside sale or a third party or a private equity or DSO. And then whenever you have an offer from something that fits your culture, fits your priorities, fits your charitable needs, you can choose the best one for of people that are in that are in business. you know, they've assumed the business has started and you've got someone starts a business in their 20s or their 30s, their 40s, their 50s or my case was my 60s. Um, the the the the the approach to exit planning, I imagine, is very different depending on where you are on the stage. I mean, a 25year-old who's kicking off a vibe coding business today and he's probably not or she's not u even thinking about a night that they're just thinking about the yacht in the um you know the house in Silicon Valley, you know, to talk talk about the different stages of life people are in and how they should be going about it.

[05:58] — Yeah, that's a really good question. You know, I think based on what age you are or what stage of life you're in also kind of depends what you're using your business for. Is it a is it a lifestyle business? Is it just providing you with cash flow to get through the day because you didn't want a boss? Like you wanted to be your own boss and set your own schedule. Um, or are you really in growth mode to potentially bring on a partner? Are you in growth mode because you're wanting to um eventually turn the lights off and sell this business to somebody else? I mean, the other option for exit planning is you don't plan at all and you just shut the business down, right? But I think everybody wants some type of value for the equity they put So, for let's say the 25-year-old, like you mentioned, vibe coding. I'm surprised you even know what that uh phrase means. [laughter] — Ouch. Anony's awesome with AI. Are you kidding me? He's like the quintessential quintessential like old dog newest tricks. Like, he's teaching people. He was teaching me about mythos this morning. Are you kidding? — Oh my gosh. See, I don't even know what that is. But I mean, I'll be 38 in a few weeks and I just learned what it was last week. So, that's impressive. Um so repeat the pickup question to me one more time please.

[07:07] — Really really discussing you know the thought process and the and the the building blocks depending on what where you are. Let's assume it's a business that um it's not going to get rolled up by you know an a private equity company. It's it's a business that for the for the time being is more of a lifestyle business. Um but you have competitors in the market that as you said they may come along and want to buy you for market share or uh more likely when you get to the right age um you turn it over to somebody who continues the cash flow to you or buys you out over time or something along more pedestrian than um you know going public and at 500 times — Yeah. I think it also depends on, you know, how you feel about entrepreneurship in business. Some some people I've worked with some folks who want to start multiple businesses because they'd rather have more control over cost and cash flow than they could get from, let's say, passive income from real estate. They like to see these businesses as passive income and they hire a general manager for each business and they run it. and they might check on the business an hour or two a week and sometimes that's the way they want it and they'll have five or six or seven businesses running at any given time.

[08:23] Usually different industry types as well to be well diversified and then they'll pass it down to family, right? Um or you got folks that are starting a new career like for instance I had a um a dentist who became disabled. he couldn't do his job anymore and he went back to law school and now he has a a a a practice that just focuses on dental transitions because he kind of had to do that in his own um previous life. And so he is now making more money as an attorney than he did as as a dentist, which honestly dentists make really good money, but it's him and his dad. His dad was an attorney. They started this thing together and now they are the four, you know, the foremost authority for what they do in the Midwest. Um, there's there's multiple reasons why people would want to get out of the business, but there's also multiple reasons why you'd want to start one. I think it's really figuring out what do I want to get out of this business. Um, what what do I want my culture to be? Do I want to support the lives of others and their dreams? Or do I want to make it um for a positively selfish reason, do I just want to make this something that's going to grow and and one day provide me and my family with the legacy and wealth that I really need to accomplish all the things that are important to me. Whether it's, you know, um buying a bigger house or supporting grandkids or creating uh lifetime legacy funds, there's a lot of planning has to go in on the front end to do those things. There's also a lot of planning on the back end like retirement income distribution planning and getting the most money out of that.

[09:48] Reducing your taxes upon sale. What are some tax shelters that I can utilize? How can I create capital losses on my balance sheet 3 to 5 years before I plan so that when I sell my taxes owed at the end from depreciation recapture and capital gains are a heck of a lot less because I had the foresight to do a lot of future planning. So, if most people don't do this, and you know, I I get it. Like, I've been there, right? Like I I've been running a business and I'm so busy just trying to keep the business alive and growing and moving to the next level that, you know, I didn't put the bandwidth into getting the business ready for sale. Okay. So, I have an idea. You know, I can look back and think of some mistakes I made, but what what mistakes do you see people So, let's say you got a business owner out there and that's what they're doing. They're just, man, they're just burning the candle at both ends. They're they're full full speed forward. What are they not considering and what should they make? What are the mistakes they make? — One of the top reasons we see people wanting to sell their business is because they're just plain burned out.

[10:52] — They really can't take anything else. They're like, I if I get an offer today, you know, and it's around the area that I want, I'm going to take it. And and there's got to be a lot of consideration around how it needs to be structured, the professionals you want to work with, do you want to keep the same culture? Do you want to retain the employees in that business because you care deeply for them and you want them to have a similar lifestyle and a similar structure to how they're used to working? So, a lot of planning that needs to go in beforehand is all right, what is my business value and when do I consider that I might want to get out of this thing? the the rolling period that we generally hear from people is five to seven years from today. If we did zero planning at all and I came back seven years later and said, "All right, Mr. Smith, um, tell me when you like to exit." Oh, five to seven years. He's like, "Well, you said that 5 to seven years ago." You know, it's because they didn't do anything. But you got to figure out what's the value of my business. Who are the people in the organization that I rely on to create the systems and the cash flow that this business generates? How do I reward and incentivize those key people to stay through a growth period to and through an exit? And can I pay them in a way that allows them to stay and feel fully compensated for all the work they've helped me with? If you can engage your employees to have a long-term perspective, but their goals and dreams are aligned with your goals and dreams, that makes for a really fluid, cohesive team. So, a lot of retention planning has to happen. Um, protection of the business's value has to happen. and what are the, you know, the legal documents I have in place?

[12:25] What's the partnership or unilateral structure that I have in my business? Um, if I were to get disabled or pass away today, would my spouse or my family get the same fair market value of what it's worth today? Um, what is the entity structure of the business prior to sale? Because if you want to take advantage of a stock sale versus an asset or a cash sale, you know, how does that impact your taxes in the future? Um, am I selling to my employees as like an esop or am I going to just sell this thing as a as a cash deal to someone someone else? Do I want to get paid upfront or do I want uh a term buyout? There's so many different, you know, questions to answer before you really get into the the crux of the deal. So, those are some questions I think you should ask yourself and you should write down first and foremost, what do I want out of this business when I'm done with it? And then and then speak with somebody who can help you speak to that better and and plan for it from a lifestyle event. — I think there are two big mistakes people make. Um, number one is — they don't take into account the the — as a sellable asset, you know, that you know who would would would a buyer want this group — that I've assembled.

[13:35] — That's one of the mistakes. But I the biggest mistake and Dr. John taught me this one seven or eight years ago was setting a financial finish line. you know, how much is enough when when when I and no matter what, when you hit it, that's when you make the move and you can see that financial finish line getting closer and closer. So, you're you're almost naturally inclined to start doing the necessary things to be ready for that moment when you hit it. Um, you can always push the finish line out. That's that's that's a personal preference, but those two things have to work together in my in my opinion retrospectively having had a successful exit that I wasn't really thinking hard about it until John told me to think hard about the money, you know, the what's the finish line. I was fortunate to build a really good team that people wanted to buy. Um, and it came down to the word you used a few minutes ago, culture. they aligned with my personal culture and we tolerated no one who uh didn't fit that culture, you know, within reason. No one no one's perfect, but um — Yeah. You said, well, Anthony, you said fortunate. I don't know if you were fortunate or really deliberate. I think there were some really hard choices along the way, right? Sure. So, — Steven, you got to have a story of when it went poorly. Like, tell tell us a No names, please, but like — tell us a story when you got called in, but it was too late. it was the wrong time. Like how like tell everyone's happy to talk about the happy story like what happens when this goes wrong.

[15:14] — I've got one um that my business partner shares all the time and it's uh it's a case near and dear to him but this I I'll say that it is it is a dentist. Um she put off exit planning for a couple years. She was in her mid-50s. Um she obviously thought she was invincible. And in in the line of work of dentistry, you've really got to be very good with your hands and you got to be and your back has to be able to hold up. However, two years went by, she did not do any exit planning. Um, you know, wouldn't take his calls after a while and she developed severe carpal tunnel. And so, where she had a $2 million practice over time because she just couldn't find the right person to take over the business, it just kept falling and falling in value. and she probably ended up getting only half of what it was valued at because it was almost like a fire sale at that point. — You know, in South Carolina, you have to be dental licensed to own a dental practice or at least, you know, have some ownership in it. And so, that was one of the reasons why we're so adamant about getting in on the the exit path. That was that's what differentiates our practice is we're talking about exit because really no one else is, especially in dentistry. But we use that story all the time because she didn't prepare, she didn't listen. Um, a lot of physicians think they know it all and they don't like to be told they don't know it all, which I hope you guys can understand. It's just the the beast. You have to be confident to be a physician.

[16:37] Um, but the fact that she sat on her hands and didn't do anything ended up hurting her hands and so she wasn't able to work and then she sold the practice and it's doing really well now. Um, but she did not get what she needed for that I read an article recently talking about the this shift that's coming, all the baby boomers that are retiring that run businesses and they haven't done the prep, right? And basically what this article said um was that there's just tons of businesses being shut down right now in America because people didn't do what you're talking about. Do you I mean you see that is that would could you confirm what that article's suggesting? Yeah, I mean there's there's two major movements coming from the boomer um generation and that is either a huge amount of wealth getting passed down just from personal assets or businesses that are going to have to be transitioned and you know from a failure of of of a lack to plan they you know they don't really have an idea of what that looks like. So there are certified exit planners, there are sepas, C and C XPs like myself that you can just reach out to. You know, a financial adviser is a really good person to talk to. If you have a CPA that's really well versed in that, I would recommend having all those different professionals on your team.

[17:50] And I feel like business owners, you guys can attest to this, their main um their main source of counsel is usually from the tax end, and it's a CPA that you rely heavily on. If you have a really good proactive CPA, you're you're golden because a lot of them are reactive. They just follow you file your taxes, they tell you what you owe, and then you're done. And their job is to help reduce taxes that year. But what they're not considering is how's what's the future impact of my reduction of tax today? Am I kicking the can down the road and every time I kick it, is it getting larger? So, if you have a financial adviser as well on your team that's saying, "Okay, CPA is correct in this. Here's how it's going to impact you in the future. Let's make decisions that kind of meet in the middle and let's not let the tax tail wag the dog Yeah, that's a big one. When they add back depreciation at the end, that's a painful one. — And every time you take a distribution, like especially from an S corporation, you're lowering your basis in the business. And so is there ways that you can continue to add basis back into the business. So if you sell for, you know, a million and you have $200,000 of basis, that's an $800,000 capital gain plus the recapture of depreciation, which is taxed at 25% as of today, that's a lot of tax you got to owe. And so people are trying to come up with, you know, creative structures from sale to try to reduce the hit up front for how much they're going to owe in tax.

[19:04] — What are the questions you wish people would be asking, you know, their adviserss today that that aren't like normally thought about? They're not — What does life look like after my business? Can you can you can you model out for me, you know, if I receive this lump sum of money, what what's the lifestyle I'm going to have? I'm used to $300,000 of cash flow a year that I generate from my business. I keep the rest of my, you know, cash flow in the business. Can you model out for me, you know, what's life going to look like? Am I going to have the right cash flow? And if not, then what's the freedom gap? What's my business worth today? What's on my personal balance sheet? How long will it last me? Because what everybody doesn't want is to run out of money and be living in their, you know, mother-in-law suite of their children's house or, you know, social security as their main source of income. They don't want that. So I think it's really important to do a lot of personal planning as well upfront so you know what life looks like and then you could hypothetically you know inject a larger amount of non-retirement based money coming in and then how does that cash flow continue to come without the you know the risk of running out of money.

[20:07] So there's a lot of simulations like Monte Carlos we can do um there's cash flow stimulators we can create that show what that life is going to look like. What you want is if you let's say you retire before retirement age or not you sell your business before retirement age maybe you want to continue to be an entrepreneur an entrepreneurial and you want to start something else maybe you want to do that because you can not because you have to because you enjoy doing something — you remember some of those conversations about like what life was like after — when you sold the business — I mean it it's uh you know the the industry that I was in uh I'm now pretty much full-time um consulting for my peers you know um that are still in the business and [snorts] they they fit all the different mistakes. You know, I have five of six of them now and each one had is making one or more of the mistakes that we're talking about. I just had a guy take a $2.5 million distribution to buy a a ranch in Indiana. um he didn't need the ranch in Indiana, but you know, he he he doesn't he didn't give any thought to the implications of what that's going to be down the road, and he's probably less than 5 years away from from the times. There's not much you can do about it.

[21:25] — Conversely, I've got some younger younger guys in the East Coast, and they they're like Randy said, they're just heads down. They're working. they're, you know, they're they're not adding, you know, support staff to to help them get through the day. You know, they look at that as pure expense, not an — Uh, which I which I, you know, I anybody that I talk to, — you know, I always quote the uh the Steve Jobs um quote when he first got um someone said to him, "Why do you spend so much time interviewing people? You're too important to be interviewing people." He said, 'Look, when you start a business, [snorts] you're 100% of the business. That first person you hire, they're 50% of the business. And the the second one you hire, they're 33% of the business. You better spend some time making sure you're surrounding yourself with pe talented people that are doing things that are uh accretive to the business. And I see from the from most of these these guys that I'm working with, they're, you know, chief cook and bottle washer. and it just it just doesn't um it's not going to serve them well in the long run. Um and I get from a the perspective of an entrepreneur, it's hard to let go. It — you need counseling, you know, you need someone that's not in your business helping you make some decisions or point, you know, point out what you're missing because you're you're as the old saying goes, you're always working in the business, not on the business. And and some business owners might not have hobbies outside of their business and they've wrapped their entire personal identity in their title and in their business. And so whenever they've given that up, they're lost. They don't really know what to do. So I think yeah, counseling of some sort or I wouldn't necessarily call it therapy, but just a group a group of like-minded individuals. You can get together and just test and retest and see what's working for them and get some ideas and, you know, develop some new hobbies. Go fishing or pick up roller skating or whatever you want to do. that's that's fun and spend your time doing that. U plus your spouse probably won't like you around in the house as often as as you are now that you're not working. So go find something the two of you guys can enjoy. Go travel. Uh there's a lot of different things you can do. But I think finding that out beforehand before you're forced to is going to be a really important transition period.

[23:42] — Yeah. A lot of exercises we take people through and there's various ways of entering into that conversation so that it's like and it's it's years ahead of time to figure out which skill set and because golfing even people that love golf only goes so far. fishing only goes so far. And so, — you know, I just read this morning an article on Charlie Munger. You know, he was working until he was 99. Like that that like now for me, I love what I do for work, so that sounds amazing. I know some people that don't love the work they do, so that doesn't sound so amazing. So, I think you got to find out like figure out what does sound amazing. I remember talking to one patient in our medical clinic who what was amazing was teaching kids who were underprivileged how to read at the local library. Like that was amazing. And so, he's got to figure out what amazing looks like. I think that's that's that's uh such an important thing to do. — You're right. A lot of people they they do focus back on the causes and and cultures they really care about and so they do get more charitably inclined — and those are some things you can really now you can use your time versus your money to help these organizations out or maybe even start your own and do something that's near and dear to you. — Do you have an example? Really, I'm just drawing on past experience because I've made this mistake, but do you have do you have a example of somebody who they had a great business and it was throwing off cash, but the books and the recordkeeping was a disaster? I'm assuming this was a big problem and therefore the business was unsellable.

[25:03] — Mhm. Yep. And they were running everything personally through the business and so it made a huge issue and your CPA tells you every year, stop doing that. You got different credit cards, you need to start using them. you know, once you kind of pierce that corporate veil, it's really hard to stitch it back up. And so, it's important to delineate what's what's what. If you and I'd say having a really solid bookkeeper and a really solid um certified public accountant and a really solid financial adviser, a really solid um banker, you know, people who are in your corner. I think it's important that they all speak the same language. They all know you well, they all uh commiserate together. they all um meet in a room without you and talk about the business and what's important and if if they're all aligned that it just makes your job easier where you can do more focusing on the business itself and focus on what's important in the business versus being inside of it trying to make sure it just stays afloat. You can work on the business more often. So like for instance, my business partner and I, we have a work on the business day every month. It's the first Friday of every month and all we do is we shut out everything else. we turn our email off and we focus like where do we want to be next quarter or what do we want to do in the next year and what are the things that are going to prevent us from doing that and how do we eliminate those those distractions you know and and once we figure out where we want to go things become more clear as to what to implement or what to take away that's going to help us achieve our end result — that's a great one that once a month just hack the business like go work on the business — amazing amazing — Oh, yeah. Go ahead.

[26:43] — Give us a story of like someone's gone out there, they maybe exited their business early — and then take us through what they can expect once that's happened. Let's assume they did the hobby building, they did the right stuff. Like, what does life look like on the other side for people that haven't act and what are the surprises they face? — H, that's a great question. So, you're saying they've they've done all the proper first steps. — They've exited. Yeah. They they had their exit. You've watched them exit. They they they were able to sell their business. It wasn't time to retire yet. Maybe, you know, they're relatively young. I say relatively young, I mean 50. It's because that's, you know, I'm relatively young. — Yeah. I from the one example I can I can think of, I was a a restaurant owner and they had multiple restaurants and then they sold. [clears throat] What they did is they figured out, okay, I've got this lump sum of money. So number one, money is no longer really a concern. And so they were very protective of their time versus their money. And they um you know, they did have some kids in college. They were present at every sporting event. They could be uh more valuable to their peers and their family. They were able to give advice. Um I I feel like if if you have all that structure already put in place, you can follow the route that's most important to you. So they did start their own foundation. um they help kids with uh learning disabilities and so now they're spending time figuring out what do these kids need, where are they located, how can I take myself to them and be proactive in planning for them and helping them you know with either reading or writing or you know giving them the tools and resources they need to be successful. So that's what makes them happy and that's what they decided to do. And then if they have an investment opportunity that comes up they can take advantage of it.

[28:25] They just reach out and say, "Hey, I've got this opportunity. What's the best way to structure this?" so that I could take advantage of it. And then, by the way, what's my exit from this opportunity when it comes up? Um, they started, you know, developing some multif family properties and they really enjoy that. They're they're a good landlord versus being one that's kind of a slum lord, which is, you know, they're they're uh taking care of their people. So, because they've been on the other end of it and they have a positive outlook on life and they have um, you know, [snorts] charitable type of um, attributes, you know, they can be a much better person and in because of what they learned in business ownership. any big surprises on the other side for people? Any things that that you know that that shock most people when they get there? — I think it's kind of they they are a little shocked at how lonely it is because they spend so much time in their business and their lives were wrapped up in the people inside of the business that they, you know, don't have as close relationships with with friends or family and so they have to rekindle those friendships. So loneliness is is one of them. Um that's not that's a negative surprise. A positive surprise would be is um h how easy it is to make better decisions because they've seen what good preparation looks like and so they have a whole you know uh five tiers or five questions that they pose for every opportunity that comes up and they can make good solid decisions because it fits XYZ. So that was a that's a positive um surprise I believe from — So let me ask you a question. Don't take it don't take this the wrong way or take it the wrong way if you want.

[29:53] So, a lot a lot of entrepreneurs are slightly older than a 38-year-old — whippers snapper, right? So, what's you know, if you you you're my son. So, if you had come into us, John and I, back when we were looking to do it, it — how do you bridge that that gap? Is it is does your partner older? Do you have can you share not with us necessarily, but do you share your uh your historical work that you've done? So, how do you overcome that? The age gap in the — It's a good great question. I mean, when I was 25 starting in this business, you know, it was a lot of self-doubt, a lot of head trash that, oh, these these people with a lot of money aren't going to want to work with me because I'm so much younger than them. I'm probably, you know, younger than their children. But I think it has to do with the confidence, sharing success stories, but also sharing some stories of what didn't go right and why, because a lot of people can relate to those those things, right? Right? And so if you're sharing something that hits with them, you know, they're going to they're going to trust you, they're going to know you, they're going to like you. And if you have those three attributes, then, you know, you can overcome the age issue. Also, I've got three young daughters at home and I've got more gray in my beard than I did last year. So, I think the grays help a little bit.

[31:05] — I also am continuously studying and and learning new things, which is why I continue to, you know, add alphabet soup to my name. I've got the certified financial planner designation. I've got the certified exit planner designation. my business partner, he's 5 years older than I am, so that helps. And he's a retirement income certified professional. So, we've got a lot of the things that speak to our industry and our type of clients that we want to work with. We've got all those certifications, which is the gold standard. It also helps build trust. It makes us a little bit more marketable and really, it's doing good work all the time because you want to be relatable. You want to be referable and you want people who've worked with you to introduce you to folks just like them. And so if you get a warm introduction or a handoff like that, they trust that individual already. They're going to give you an opportunity to present your — Okay, let's um let's shift it a little bit. I got a question that I I can't go back on, but let's you know, you've got this entrepreneur, everything's he's done a lot right or she's done a lot right. The business is going to produce the financial finish line they want. When I when when I sold out, I got approached by a bunch of financial advisors with every tax scheme on the planet to bury the capital gains.

[32:18] — Are one of them had to do with I I think it was I gave all the money to a charity and then I borrowed the money back and it was all tax-free. What's your take on all that that to or or should you issue a warning to the entrepreneurs that are listening right now to these things because it was very tempting, you know, it was it was — multiples below the cost of doing it was multiples below what we ultimately paid in taxes. I I think as long as the individual that you're speaking with understands the tax code um there are new strategies that raise red flags within the IRS consistently. Um, you know, there's there's Delaware Delaware Statuary Trust, there's there's Kratz, there's Kratz, there's GMATs, there's all there's all kinds of different things uh or grats, you know, there's all kinds of different things that are out there. But really, you should you should understand them inside and out. You the person who's explaining this to you should be able to explain, you know, how they've done that in the past and what's worked out for them. What are some um red flags that might generate by using this the structure or strategy?

[33:24] Um, you know, that's why it's so important for me to have such a good positive relationship and a proactive one with my clients because you're right. I mean, a year into someone getting ready to sell, they're gettingounded. And so, if I've already done the work and and luckily, I haven't lost a client when they have sold, they haven't taken it somewhere else and I've been able to manage those assets um because I've done a great work up front. But, you have to be proactive. Um, you have to be able to share things proactively with people, which is why I mean, if I get a question from a client that um, I do know a lot about, but I I write a blog about it right away because it's like, okay, if this person is thinking about this particular strategy or heard something online, I probably need to write about it either to dispel some myths about it, to share how it works, but also it helps with, you know, SEO and people finding me online. If I have that content out there, it means I'm somewhat of a specialist in that area and I can speak to it uh properly. So, you have to be proactive and you have to have a good relationship with people um especially as you're getting closer to the sale. So, I'm I'm assuming because you already had a relationship in place and those people were on you, you might have been bringing some of these ideas to your folks and saying, "Hey, what do you think about this?" and seeing what answer came up with. Well, I mean, you have to have someone on your team that's not a yes man.

[34:36] — Someone that's going to say, "I think that's a dumb idea and here's why." or hey, I think that might actually be a really good opportunity for us. Let's explore that. Let's model it out and see how it works. — Yeah. Yeah. We we we we had a guy that just said, "Yeah, no, not going to not going to support that." So, not that it was illegal. It just was untested. It was it was untested. They said, "Do you really want to, you know, five years or three years down the road, you know, pay that piper?" Because the piper is going to be bigger than the pipe right now in a big way because there'll be fines and interest and and all that stuff. So, we swallowed hard and, you know, just wrote the checks. — Yeah. There's no such thing as as as there's tax avoidance, but there's not like getting rid of tax. Like, it's going to it's going to come at some point. So, when is it most advantageous to just pay the piper, go and get out of the way? — Either you're going to realize it or someone in your family is going to realize it. And it's better that you do it if you feel that way versus someone who might not have as much money or control as you do is going to have to pay for it at some point. — I want to circle back to valuations and to simplify it, right? I know there's lots of ways to value a company. There can be cash flow, there can be multiples of EIDA, there can, you know, asset sale, etc. Let's just say, you know, I think most business owners historically hear like a business is worth three to five times cash flow, but then we've all seen businesses or people that either can't sell, so that's basically zero times cash flow. I mean, other ones sell for.7 cents on the dollar for one year, but then other businesses do go for three to five and other businesses go for 10 or maybe even 15.

[36:15] — What is the difference in those businesses? Right. It's Yeah, it's really industry — Um it's it's um you know, is this more of a service-based business where revenue is more recurring or is it like transactional? Like you're not going to find a realtor who's going to be able to sell their client base, you know, for anything that's worth, you know, because that's that's the relationship they have. So, also, can you remove yourself from the business for three months and it still holds its value. Can you go on, you know, can you go to to Bali for a while and your business still runs? That means that you've got a really good operation. You got a really good core of people. That's why it's so important to retain the organization key people because if you can retain them inside of the business, you know, I don't like to call it golden handcuffs because no one likes to be retained, but can they be rewarded and incentivized to remain in the business to keep it going and then the people who buy the business can re, you know, reorganize that structure or replicate it at some point. But it's very industry specific for how they sell whether or not it's uh you know.7 cents on the dollar or five times E. But I mean tech companies are going for a lot more because that's just where the value is right now. And really you just got to consider your business is only worth what someone's willing to write you a check for it, Um, this is out of left field and if you don't have an opinion on this, it's okay. But a couple weeks ago, the three of us discussed there was an article by Chimoth Papa, I can't say his last name, where he was talking about these big valuations on public companies are going to come down because of AI and how fast and it's ridiculous now to be able to predict revenues 25 years in the future that it's just too hard in today's world. Do do you think that's right? you have an opinion or I don't know if you happen to see that article.

[37:57] — I have not seen the article but I do know that it is you know an everchanging shifting landscape and what's valuable today might not be valuable in 10 years. — You know pe people have been the ones to set up these types of AI you know entities in their company and then being let go because it's taken over their job. So you really never know what's going to happen and and because AI still is is very much unknown for its full it full potential we don't know how it's going to be implemented. We don't know if it's a positive thing in the long run or if it's going to just make people more complacent and in and search for convenience over value. So that is a really hard question. I mean it is so — And he's talking about public companies more than — private companies. But you know the same thing who who knows what's going to get disrupted. So — if you think about the mag seven you know in the market the top seven companies are carrying the weight of the S&P 500. So those seven companies, if you take them out, it's only worth half of what it's, you know, valued at today. So you're right. I mean, these these the big the bubble's somewhere. We just don't know where it is. — Yeah. The the discussion was about protecting their moes. And, you know, you're you serve an industry that, — you know, you know, you could probably make an argument, not a good one, that robotics could have some kind of impact on that industry. Probably to the good, — right? to the point where you can do more procedures, you can do all the simple procedures can be done, you know, who knows. Uh, conversely, you know, companies like Salesforce of late have been taking a beating because of the belief that, you know, vibe coders can create a CRM in a half an hour. Um, I don't personally believe that Salesforce is that that out of it that they're going to miss that miss that boat, but uh that's I think that's where some of the valuation issues have been coming in. So, — but who knows? I mean, — who knows?

[39:50] — I think you're never going to replace the human element of that because you have to go you have to have, you know, you got to be able to to test and verify and continue to check. I mean, the AI has been wrong a lot. — So, you know, I've had um there was an example. I was talking to my neighbor. He owns an HVAC company and he switched to a more AI powered billing and software solution and it screwed up his billing so bad. He's he's saided that his he did $13 million of sales last year or sorry last month which he probably only did $250,000. So like some there's some issue somewhere and the coding wasn't correct. So you know there's there's always going to be some type of human cleaning up the mess or checking things and making things u more seamless and and more specific to the industry. So I feel like it's if you see AI and those types of overvaluations just because of the tools and resources that are available, you still have the humans who have to go in and verify and — Yeah. So so much so much we think about and there you know I think exit planning falls into the bucket of always important and not urgent until it is. — And so this is one of those things that you know if if you're building a business or you know even even building a side hustle, right? It's just thinking about where the cash flow is. Is there an exit you want to uh move forward?

[41:02] Whether that exit is you handing it off to the next generation or selling it outright or whatever the case may be. Lots of questions about things that should be happening now. Things to prepare for on the other side depending on where you are in your career. Great. I love the idea of having, you know, a bookkeeper and a CPA and a CFP kind of all working together to give you advice and guidance as you go through it. So, tons of great stuff here. Uh, how do we get a hold of you, Steve? If someone wants to, you know, find out more about whether it's a dental practice or, you know, a family office or whatever they're working on, how do they find — I think the best place to go would just be go to www.blaterdentaladvisors.com. Um, that's my practice for clients who are not dental focused. But you can go to either one of those and find me. I'm on I'm on YouTube. I have a podcast called Portfolio Pulse. It's on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Um, and then my email is [email omitted]. — Yeah, Huskey if you're if you're listening and don't have the visuals.

[42:06] So, we'll have all this in the show notes for people who want to click the links and we'll get all that promoted. So, any last thoughts, Randy, Anthony, as we get going? — I'm good. — Thank you. — I just I just think this is a big part of abundance, freedom, sovereignty, right? people can't be trapped in their business and you know using Steven's tips and planning really does give people that that freedom to live the life they want but there's got to plan I I know I've been guilty of not doing that so — couldn't agree more — it's urgent till it is it's always important so Steven thanks so much for being here we really really appreciate it and uh listeners you know what to do make sure you like subscribe tell your friends about it have them listen to this episode and uh make it part of your conversation with their business owners super important topic here — thank you glad to be Here at Tales of Abundance, we know that fitness is just as important as money or milestones. It's one of our key fives. For lots of other, taking care of my body while I build my life is one of the more time consuming and difficult goals to chase. That's why we're partnering with AG1. It's a daily drinkable habit, less than a minute, that's formulated with 75 plus vitamins and nutrients and designed to support energy, digestion, and immune defense. It even has a few grams of protein uh that we're all chasing these days. And if you want to try it with our affiliate link, you'll also receive a free AG1 flavor sampler plus vitamin D3 plus K2 with your welcome kit when you first subscribe. $72 value. Go to Uh the abundance briefing. Claude Mythos or Mythos, however you say it. I don't know. I don't know if you guys have heard about this, but it's Anthropic.

[43:50] Their latest version that they were supposed to release to replace Opus 4.6 is supposed to be this mythos version, they decided that it was so powerful and so disruptive to the world that they weren't going to release it. Basically they said that they the engineers left this thing and when they came back the next morning it had found I forget but a couple dozen security I mean things software programs had been running 20 or 25 years 30 years and no human has ever been able to find the software vulnerabilities and people have been over it and it's been checked for code by humans and these things found ways to get in sometimes by finding five minor v vulnerabilities and putting them together. Uh they also claimed that it escaped from its sandbox. Um you know and kind of got out in the wild. So what says you? What do you guys think? What do you guys think about this? — I think you missed a a couple things though too though. Like it was it was being graded by a third party AI judging system and when it recognized it was being graded, it launched its own attacks to the grading AI to change its score to get a better score. Like there there's some things in here that a little bit concerning if they really happened, right?

[45:06] I mean that's that's the question, right? Like I mean is this is this the you know the Terminator future that people are scared of. — Well, it was told to try to — it was told to try to escape its own — And it did it. It did what it was asked to do. It's but it wasn't told to I I don't know. I don't know what prompt it was given to get the best grade or to even know if it was being graded. I' I'd love to understand more of that. And I haven't read the whole report yet. I just, you know, just back from being overseas on vacation and haven't kind of gotten deep into this, but I mean, I'm super curious to find out like what it was asked to do and what it what it took to do from that. So, — yeah, I read that. Go ahead. — Go ahead. — Well, no, what I was going to say is, you know, if if all the the the scary things are turn out to be true or can't be stopped, then what? That's what uh you know, someone that's not technical who's standing on the sidelines wondering what this what this stuff is going to do to my life. Um was this inevitable was what the first thing that came to mind. You know, is is it is it inevitable that this thing these this technology so powerful and so that this is this is the beginning of the end or the just the beginning you know just the beginning of even more abundance in the world. You know if they were able to figure it out but what if you know a state actor replicates this you know what could they do? What would they do? Um so it's it's for sure something to be concerned about but — well I mean one of anthropic or claude strengths is coding and they have really focused on on coding. Well part of that is making it so that it is secure. So clearly they put a lot of time and resources into training this thing on how to create security and then anybody that wants to can turn around and use that to break security, right? which is kind of what they used did in that test.

[47:13] But to be clear, by the way, when they didn't release it initially, they said there were 12 companies that they were joining with. It was Google and Apple and Facebook and Chase Bank and I don't know. I've I read this morning it was 40. I heard over the weekend it was up to a hundred companies that they're basically giving this to whoever the top companies to be able to plug and fix the security holes before they send it out. Right. So I mean that's what's going on. I mean — inevitable is an interesting word Anthony by the way from what you said like I because if they don't do it at some point some AI is going to get good enough. They keep leaprogging each other right one's better than the next. So whether it's chat or it's deepseek or llama or some other AI will have this capability. It's only only a matter of — Well, it's not just plugin holes, right? I mean, obviously, you know, the boat's leaking, so you got to, you know, patch it and and and fix what's there. Is this is this becoming so unique in its skills that it can create holes?

[48:23] That's the that's the question that you know again I you know it's been a concern of mine and been poo pooed by everybody I talked to. But you know last week's episode for those that listen was a very upbeat episode about AI and its ability to create abundance for everybody and individuals can start businesses on the you know on their own. And it was and then this news came out and just took the air out of my sales, you know, when when I heard this, it really did. Um, but I I you know, I'm trusting the, you know, the universe to do what's right. Um, because any evil that can be done with something like this can be done in reverse back to you. So I think you know is this the new world that we live in that you know we have mutually assured destruction through AI um philosophical question for now may be a practical question for tomorrow who knows the reality is though that we can't like like like one side can't if the US were to stop all development of AI certainly China would not like they would continue pushing forward and so — I I think I I don't understand all of the implications of that, but I do understand there are implications to that. So — yeah, can you imagine we that we might have a disarmament treaty in the future around AI? I mean, we have disarmament treaties now over a powerful weapon and you can just see what we're doing to prevent others from getting it right now. But um I I imagine that we'll have those kinds of things, you know, but this is a lot harder to conceal and control by a state, right? This could be developed by, you know, five guys in a basement with couple of powerful computers and a couple of years worth of um programming experience and run run some models for a couple of years and who knows what they're going to be able to develop.

[50:34] — There was some big big media last week about two guys that uh started a company. They're doing $400 million in revenue after less than two years and now going to be upward, you know, close to two billion in revenue with two employees. And so I think we're just it's it is changing things for sure. So it's something to watch. I think we, you know, more information will be forthcoming in in the coming days. And uh you know, it's it's one thing to keep up with. It's really reminded me that even though I started developing my a my AI skills personally a couple years ago, it'd be very easy for someone to jump in tomorrow and learn a bunch of AI skills and blow right past me even though I've been working on it for a couple years. Like it wouldn't be very difficult. And so I've got to remember that I've got to stay really sharp and continue to invest time, energy, and uh you know, resources to stay up about not just my skill set, but my understanding of what the frontier looks like in terms of So, I have a little different take on this, by the way. I think this is mostly a marketing ploy is my personal opinion. One, anthropic has said things like this before, right? This is becoming a pattern. Two, to your guys's point, it's coming. whether it's chat GBT or it's China or it's what did you say five guys in their basement and if they can create this AI that's more advanced than everybody else's AI I'm pretty sure the AI could find a way to secure and make it anonymous like it inevitable is what's coming so you know we're lucky that the right guys evidently or at least that's how they're promoting it but think about the marketing of this right the how much would all three of us love to have this like here's the new model. I I want to use it, right? Like I I'm thinking, boy, I could do this and this and this if it's this much better. Well, this is great. This is like the New York the line at the New York club. There's nobody in the club, but there's a line, you know, there's a long line to make people want to be in there. And telling people that they can't have something has been a fantastic marketing thing for years. And here you're just you're promoting it as, oh, it's it's so great.

[52:41] It's better. So, so a I think there's a lot of marketing here. Maybe not solely. I mean, I and maybe it's 100% legit, right? But I think that I think two it's going to be effective. But I also think the abundance angle of this, if it really is that great and that powerful, if they can use it to patch all this different stuff, that's a big jump forward for knowledge, humanity, you know, once that goes. — Yeah. I I I've heard the marketing thing, but you know, and again, I don't know Daario, the CEO, founder, personally, obviously, but his, you know, moral underpinnings appear to be altruistic and I don't I wouldn't I wouldn't categorize certainly he's a great marketer because he's grown a a terrific business, but you know, the the issue he had with the government uh recently and he left Open AI for similar reasons way back when. So, I I doubt it's a pure marketing play. Not that they wouldn't take advantage of it to the extent they could. There must be a there there. That all I'm going to say.

[53:54] I I believe there's a there there. What there is, I don't know, but there — it could be a combination of both, right? I mean, yeah, I would I don't want to get too much into his attention. — All right, let's let's go to Artemis 2. We talked a few weeks ago or a month or so that we were going to the moon and nobody cared. Now certainly when it happened there was more coverage and more interest. Um what you know we've been to the moon now. What do you guys think? What what did we learn? We learned that we needed a diversion from the news because the news was so bad, so awful uh that, you know, slinging four people around the the the moon for 10 days was a great um distraction from everything. But, you know, as with as with most things with the government, okay, big splash, now what? Well, in two more years, we're gonna try it again. And this time, we're gonna do it. We're gonna put someone on the moon. It's kind of like a, you know, when uh Apple doesn't release the the full series all at once and makes you wait a week for the next episode. I mean, I'm just kind of, okay, I got I'm going to forget about it. I'm going to forget what the last episode was. So, whatever. We'll see what happens. It makes me wonder what it was like back in like the 1400s when there was news of Columbus leaving for some new world or some new way around the world and you know he was going off into like wherever but you wouldn't hear about it again for weeks or months or years or whatever you know like Shackleton going to the Antarctica or I mean I mean this is some now it's much more high tech obviously and a little less you know cowboy but I don't know man like my wife asked me she's like could you imagine getting like shot up into space I think and then landing standing in a little capsule in the middle of the ocean. Like, no way. Like I mean, it was like I can't remember how big the capsule was, but it was like smaller than the size of a school bus or something. I mean, just tiny.

[55:56] — Well, I look I Anthony, you said it's going to be a couple years. How many times do you think SpaceX, Blue Origin, maybe some other private actor will go to the moon before NASA gets back? — Well, that's what I'm saying. — I think next year. — Army. So, so Artist 3 is next year, 2027, and it's going to be landers from, as I read now, Blue Origin and SpaceX are both sending commercial landers next — Like, I don't know what that means for like, you know, is does that mean we're going to be mining minerals and like shooting them home or I have no idea what it means. — Yeah, we last week while you were sipping wine on the French countryside, Anthony and I talked about this a little bit that, you know, I definitely think moon mining is coming, right? it. There's there's minerals and all the things we need, you know, the rare earths and all this stuff is plentiful on the moon with the exception of gases. — And, you know, they they can actually shoot this stuff back to Earth, but I I think they're going to mine the moon to create data centers, solar panels in space, and I just think there's a lot of things that are going to start happening in orbit. Um but yes I I fullblown mining colony is coming definitely — you know for the long you know it's been 50 years since we were on since man was on the moon um we've had space stations you know um operating with you know some of our you know allies and enemies for t tens of years.

[57:26] Why all of a sudden is the moon, you know, what's what's what's behind this? I don't know. I'm very suspicious about, you know, the reasoning. Yeah, I know there's rare earth minerals on the moon. There rare earth minerals in Montana. You still have to mine them and develop them and it's a very difficult process to do. So to think that, you know, in a next year in 2027, we're going to have robots on the moon digging holes, creating, you know, refining product and then shooting it back. That's 20 years away, you know, I if if if it ever happens. And it just it's just not a it's too disjointed an effort. The reason we were able to get to the moon in 10 years, if you believe we were actually there, there are those that believe it was a space [laughter] — Was we well we we we marshaled the resources. It was a version of the Manhattan project to land a man on the moon before the before the Russians did.

[58:31] Now you've got lots of different interest, you know, disparit interest. And with disparit interest, you know, that's a dispersion of of resource and it's not concentrated. So that's why that's why my belief is yeah, Elon will probably be the first one there, but they're not going to be I don't think unless they work together for common good, which this is what they should be really should be all about, right? The common good of man, right? And man's survivability on Earth. um the protection of — time we get attacked by aliens on the 4th of July. Anthony, I don't think that's going to happen. — Well, I I'm not worried about that. You know, there you know. — Have you ever seen rare earth minerals be processed and what pretty devastating. — It destroys nature. Okay. — It it really destroys it. So, this should be, you know, an all-in effort if if it's if it's a possibility to be an all-in effort by groups of companies and they all share the wealth and there's plenty to go around. Um, as Bernie said, — from abundance perspective, there's lots I mean, I think I think the cool thing here is that, you know, the frontier like it's a growing frontier, right? And so that frontier is growing and and now we're headed back to you know Star Trek could be for real or who you know I'm not a Treky but I mean I just think it's cool that we're expanding.

[59:55] — We're expanding and that's that's what abundance is all about. So — Anthony, you think 20 years before we're digging holes on the moon? — Doubt as I sense a bet. I sense a bet coming. No, I think TW Yes, I do think 20 years before we're digging, refining, and sending finished product back that might be obsolete by the time we get around to do it, right? So, you know, the the um what's going to happen in the battery storage uh universe between now and then? what's going to happen in the solar collection uh universe between now and then the data centers. Um, so you know, while we're we're spending a lot of time perhaps thinking about solving today's what is to what what's really going to be in front of us tomorrow, right? Data centers were a non-starter two and a half years ago was the the same buildings with mining Bitcoin. Now, now it's all about data centers and compute. You know, what what what are we going to what are we missing? What's going to happen? what's going to be before us um in 12 months, 24 months, 36 months technology-wise that makes Hey, what the hell? We don't need these rare earth minerals like we thought we did.

[1:01:24] — So, I I don't know. I'm just I'm — from Okay, I'm going to take the under on 20 years. Like, I I don't think there's any way it's anywhere near that. If you just look at what one guy is doing, right, we got one guy building SpaceX and reusable rockets. He's building the battery technology. He's building the solar technology. He's got a company to bore and go under town or under underground and build tunnels. He's got the brain chimp implants. He got robots if I didn't say it. Um AI, not to mention all the other players. If you take all those things and all those things are growing exponentially like they are like the the and by the way the mass driver to send it back to Earth from what I understand is fairly easy like once they're up there to to ship it back. Um I just don't see how it can take that long. But let — even if he wants to ship it back he might be trying to launch all the way to Mars. He might not want to ship it back. — That's one of the theories too, right? But also sending it to space centers or whatever. All right, let's close this on on on a fun topic and simultaneously I'm gonna see if I can make John uncomfortable or how uncomfortable I can make John. So, all right, Andy, — I'm already uncomfortable.

[1:02:37] — You said if we've ever been there, what do you think the chances are that we went to the moon in 1969 and through 72? — Well, I was alive then. I don't think either of you were. Um I I believe 100% that we landed on the moon. Neil Armstrong stepped off those stairs, said one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind and it was an amazing uh accomplishment uh in a very short period of time given the technology that was available at the time. So I 100% — All right, John. — I have no doubt. — I just think I think with as much technology we have in science it would have come out by now if that hadn't happened. I just think there would have had to been too many people involved. It would have been too hard to keep the secrets. That's just my my skepticism about people's ability to keep a secret. — So, from from birth, by the way, I was my I was born on July 19th and we landed on July 20th, 1969. So, um I guess I'm doxing myself there, but anyway. So, — so you were alive.

[1:03:43] — I have been alive, Anthony. Um, up until I was, I don't know, 30, 35, maybe even 40, I would have said, "Yeah, we went." Like, I'm like, "Okay, get out of here, conspiracy theorist." Then I heard enough compelling arguments that I was like, "Ah, all right. 90% we went." I got to tell you, after watching this, I'm way under 50% now. like the fact that it's been 54 years and 54 years later with all the new technology, all the new stuff, we we not only we don't think we can land, we don't think we like they're not even ready to land on the moon yet. We supposedly did that in — Randy, are two things I we'll close it out with this. Two things. Number one, we didn't spend any money trying to do it for the last 50 years. We spent money trying to create reusable space things. And the second thing, and I'll leave you with this, on July 19th, 1969, you had the exact same amount of hair as you do now. — This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guest speakers and their firms are not affiliated with or endorsed by PAS, Guardian, or Huskey Financial Group, and Bluewater Dental Advisors LLC. And opinions stated are their own. Guardian, its subsidiaries, agents, and employees not provide tax, legal, or accounting advice. Consult your tax, legal, or accounting professional regarding your individual situation. All investments and investment strategies contain risk and may lose value. Registered representative and financial adviser of Park Avenue Securities LLC. OSJ 6115 Park South Drive, Sweet 200, Charlotte, North Carolina 28210-74-5528507.

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