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Are You Solving the Wrong Problem?

Episode 83 · 22 July 2026 · 1 hr 7 min

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Are You Solving the Wrong Problem? How to Find the Root Cause

Solving the wrong problem is one of the most expensive mistakes in business and in life. Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino start with a technician who tried to turn a $50 switch into a new air handler. They go on to root cause analysis, asking "why" five times, Toyota's Plan-Do-Check-Act and Intuit's "follow me home" research.

Are you solving the wrong problem?

In this episode of Tales of Abundance, Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg, and Anthony Marino break down one of the most expensive mistakes in business and life: fixing symptoms instead of solving the real problem.

The conversation starts with John’s frustrating HVAC experience, where a technician tried to turn a $50 switch into a brand-new air handler. From there, the guys dig into why smart people and companies so often chase the wrong solution—whether it is bad incentives, poor diagnosis, ego, weak listening, or simply failing to ask better questions.

They explore real-world examples from Sears, Toyota, Intuit, CollegeClub.com, sales teams, medical diagnosis, customer experience, AI regulation, and startup pivots. The core lesson: problem solving is a skill, and the first step is not rushing to a solution. It is making sure you are solving the right problem in the first place.

In the Abundance Briefing, the conversation shifts to a 12-year-old entrepreneur building a high-margin 3D printing business, the promises and risks of GLP-1 drugs, AI moving from answering questions to doing real work, and what young people should do in a tougher job market.

If you run a business, lead people, sell anything, build systems, or just want to make better decisions, this episode will help you slow down, ask better questions, and stop wasting time fixing the wrong thing.

Root Cause Analysis, the 5 Whys and Problem Solving in Business

What you'll discover:

  • Symptoms vs. root cause, and why hero syndrome makes people rush to a solution
  • What Sears, Intuit and CollegeClub.com show about optimizing for the wrong thing
  • Toyota's Plan-Do-Check-Act, gemba walks and Intuit's "follow me home" research
  • Why listening, empathy and asking "why" five times surface the real problem
  • Errors of omission vs. errors of commission, and AI regulation as a wrong-problem risk
  • In the Abundance Briefing: a 12-year-old's 3D-printing business, GLP-1 drugs, AI that does real work, and a tougher job market

Timestamps

  • [00:00] John’s HVAC story: turning a $50 switch into a fake replacement problem
  • [01:11] Incentives, incompetence, and why companies misdiagnose customers
  • [01:30] Sears, Walmart, and solving the wrong retail problem
  • [03:14] Why customer experience was the real issue
  • [03:41] Symptoms vs root cause
  • [04:40] A medical example: same symptoms, different diagnosis
  • [05:26] The hero syndrome and rushing to solve too fast
  • [06:48] The window business: price, value, and knowing who you are
  • [08:15] How honesty builds trust with customers
  • [09:36] Repeat business, pricing mistakes, and long-term consequences
  • [10:50] Why talking to the customer reveals the real issue
  • [11:31] Listening, empathy, and asking better questions
  • [12:25] Anthony’s Sears story: “Does Kohl’s have different weather?”
  • [13:52] Why shame and embarrassment make problem solving harder
  • [14:23] Intuit, remote deposit, and solving a problem technology erased
  • [16:16] CollegeClub.com and the cost of optimizing for the wrong metric
  • [19:45] Being good at solving problems vs choosing the right problem
  • [21:17] Why investors like founders who can pivot
  • [22:00] Toyota’s Plan, Do, Check, Act framework
  • [25:19] Creating a culture where mistakes can be discussed
  • [26:23] Errors of omission vs errors of commission
  • [28:12] AI regulation and the risk of solving the wrong problem
  • [31:12] AI safety, government regulation, and unintended consequences
  • [34:08] Bad actors vs bad tools
  • [36:28] What to do first when you see a problem
  • [38:38] Gemba: get out of the chair and observe the real work
  • [39:44] Intuit’s “follow me home” customer research
  • [41:55] Four Seasons and empowering employees to solve guest problems
  • [42:13] Problem solving as a skill everyone needs to build
  • [43:34] Anthony’s final warning: make sure the problem is worth solving
  • [46:07] A 12-year-old entrepreneur builds a 3D printing business
  • [48:31] GLP-1 drugs, weight loss, muscle loss, and longevity
  • [49:13] Why resistance training matters with GLP-1s
  • [52:03] Recreational GLP-1 use and medical oversight
  • [55:40] AI moving from answering questions to doing actual work
  • [56:30] How John is using AI inside his organization
  • [57:38] How Anthony uses AI for sharper decision making
  • [58:45] Randy on using AI agents, Claude Code, spreadsheets, and strategy
  • [1:00:55] The job market is tougher for new graduates
  • [1:02:22] Are there jobs available, or just not the jobs people expected?
  • [1:05:00] Trades, electricians, AI skills, and future-proofing your career

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About the hosts

This is a hosts-only episode with no guest: Randy Lorensen, Dr. John Oberg and Anthony Marino. (Host bios are on the host pages linked below.)

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Meet the hosts: Randy Lorensen · Dr. John Oberg · Anthony Marino

Transcript

A full transcript is below. It was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect some spelling errors in names and terms.

[00:01] experience over the weekend. My HC went out at home and I called the company to come check it out, and we live in a high-rise. There's an air handler in my unit. They come in and they figure out that the switch that turns it on and off has burned out. And the guy looks at it and says, "This unit's 10 years old, your your air handler, and it's going to be hard to get this switch. It's like a $50 switch, and it'll take months to get it." I was like, "That's impossible. There is no way. This is a Johnson control system, massive company." He's like, "Yeah, it'll take months. they may have to make one from scratch just for you. I was like, "What do you suggest?" He's like, "Well, I don't know." I was like, "Are you saying I have to get a brand new air handling unit just to fix this switch?" He's like, "Let me call my supervisor." Calls the supervisor. He's like, "Yeah, I can I can schedule an appointment to come get you a quote on a new unit." I finally I was like, "No way." So, I went to AI. I plugged everything in. There's a $50 switch available. Original equipment. It's going to arrive today. I can promise you that company bu won't be the company putting it in. Zero ability to solve a problem. Zero ability to diagnose how to do things from him and allegedly his supervisor. Man, I was really put off by this. How does this happen? There there are so many reasons why that could have happened to you. It could be it could be as simple as I, you know, I'm going to make a commission if I sell this guy a $10,000 unit, you know, instead of a $40 part or I just share incompetence. Who knows? The an example in running a company was wrong.

[01:33] And it goes back to Sears. 1960, Sears had 800 stores. In n in 2002, when they started to really decline, they had the same 800 stores. They opened a couple here and there, but for all intents and purposes, the real estate was the real estate. And I remember being in a meeting with the CEO at the time, Arthur Martinez, in 1998 when he said, quote, "Well, Walmart can't expand any more than they have." Okay? And at that time, I think they had, you know, 800 stores and I I think they have 3,000 now. So his the thinking was, well, we don't need to we don't need any more stores. We just need to spruce up the place and maybe buy a company like Lanzen and put in new products. When in fact, the problem was location, location, location, location. And Walmart and Target and Kohl's and Home Depot and Lowe's, they all expanded into the suburbs where communities were growing. And Sears wasn't. So when she had to go shopping or he had to go shopping, they had to drive by all those places to get to a Sears. Well, if time is valuable, made no sense. So the company literally went out of business because they didn't want to solve the real problem. The real problem was location. They kept solving, not solving, they kept just chasing the what they thought the problem was instead of admitting, look, we got to do something here. and and we got to go toe-to-toe with these other companies if we're going to survive.

[03:14] — Well, sometimes the problem the problem we're trying to solve isn't the actual real problem. Like you that particular problem was a customer experience problem. By the way, Walmart now 10,900 stores today. And so the I mean the the and so really I think people are often times aimed at the wrong finish line. And and for my problem this weekend, it was either incompetence or bad incentives, but either one of those things is terrible. people solve the symptom, right? And sometimes it's just a listening thing and it it's sympa it could be the symptom. It could be empathy. Like frankly, for people listening, John lives in Austin, Texas. I mean, it's been 100° every day. Not having air conditioning at 100 degrees. Like having a little bit of empathy, like you should want to fix that quickly if you're in that business. Like that's a way that you get referrals, get repeat business, get good word of mouth. And I'm guessing like I didn't even think about what Anthony said about they could just want a commission on a $10,000 unit. That might be a real thing, right? But they're thinking about what their needs, not the customer, which will bite them in the long run. But I just think often times we solve problems by by fixing the symptom and we're constantly playing a game of whack-a-ole and not getting down to the core problem or the first principles which I think is difficult for a lot of people. Now, you know, I'll say this, my daughter got sick years ago. This is probably going back, you know, 10, 15 years. And she had a fever and the doctor diagnosed it and gave her an antibiotic. And then two weeks later, she had exactly the same symptoms. And I called the doctor to get a refill on the medicine. And the doctor was like, "Nope, not doing it. Must bring her in for diagnosis." And I was so angry. So angry because it was exactly the same symptoms. And they went through all the diagnosis. It was a totally different root cause with a totally different set of treatments. And I'd have taken her down the exact wrong track had I not been, you know, forced down the correct diagn. And so I have a lot of gratitude for that doctor. But man, I was I was torqued off at the time, right? until they showed me like, hey, we actually would have done harm if we'd used that other way of treating just symptoms.

[05:26] — All have the hero syndrome where, you know, we see we see something occurring in front of us and, you know, we we we're we're built to respond. So, we just we quickly respond to it. And this happens in our monthly meeting all the time. We're solving people's problems, what we believe to be the problem. And to your point, Randy, it's it's just a symptom. You know, it can be as simple as, you know, in a business, hey, our sales are down. And then someone will jump up, well, we need to get new salespeople or we need to, you know, have a meeting and and coach coach them up. When it, you know, some further diagnosis, you might find, well, shoot, there's a there's a competitor in the market that's selling the same product that's better and less expensive, and we're not paying attention to it. are or we know it's there, but we're not going to admit that their product is better or we we will say it's well, it's cheap. You know, in the window business, you know, there there are inexpensive, less expensive vinyl windows of not great quality. Well, it turns out customers really kind of are okay with that. So, you know, you just have to you you know, either sell your value or they don't they buy a $5,000 package instead of your $10,000 package, you know. So, you got to admit, you know, what what what the issue really is.

[06:48] — So, let's let's let's dig into that, Anthony. — So, you've got a $10,000 window package. Somebody else has a $5,000 that's lesser quality, right? what what most people do is they go, "Well, we can't compete on price." And they kind of whine about it and they complain or they lower their prices, right? What is the solution here? Let's talk about how how do you solve that — Well, you have to know who you are, right? So, and we can give a very specific example here. You have to know who you are and you have to know where the customer is coming from. You know, what's most important to the customer? Well, that guy never asked John was, "What's really important to you?" And John would have said, "I want my I need my air conditioning and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get my air conditioning unit working. I need a solution." and you know knowing who you are is well you know Mrs. Jones, we don't our windows cost more money. And here's the reason why. They last longer. They have higher R ratings and they they're they're built to last and we warrant them for life and so on and so on and so on. And if if that's not important to you, then I I do suggest you buy the cheap Home Depot windows.

[08:05] And just that, you know, you're not going to get 100% market share in any business you're in. you know, and unless you're the government, there's no such thing as 100% market share. So, — but that's how you build trust. That's how you build trust, right? Like I I had I had a couple people in the professional services world that told me when they couldn't do something, even though it would have been to their benefit to try financially, and those are the people that I went back to time and time again. This company that came out this week, I immediately called my building manager this morning. They're no longer on the board for the building in terms of like who's going to call them out. like that they've already been pulled off the building like spec sheet for who gets called out and it's like if if once this whole thing is resolved I may put some pretty negative reviews online which I never do and yeah Anthony when when you're talking about the the window thing my thought process is how do how do I get in front of the right people because you said customers don't care but is that true some customers care Yeah. Millions of dollars worth of windows.

[09:08] Millions every month. — So some — I'm not saying customers don't care. Some some the listen in some cases it's all they can afford and they need new windows and something is better than what they have and that's all they can afford and that that's okay. And that goes for that goes for everything. You know her problem is solved and that's a good thing. There's more than one solution. — I had a conversation this morning with a group of salespeople about repeat business and we kind of talked about this very thing like they needed to look at it and say, "Okay, why am I not getting enough repeat business for the people that aren't? Is it because you don't have a good enough service and people are unhappy? Is it because you're overpromising and underdelivering? Is it because the price is too high?" Right? I mean, I had a situation once where I had a salesperson and I had all this repeat contractor business that came in every month and he started raising the price. And when I when I brought it up, he's like, "Well, they're paying it." And I stupidly go, "Oh, he's right. They are paying it. I'm making bigger margins."

[10:18] And I let him go with it. Well, guess what? One by one, I lost all of my repeat business. And I called them back and some are like, "Your prices have gotten out of control. I've been working with you for 5 years, but now like you're overcharging. And so, yes, they paid it once, some of them paid it twice, three times, but eventually I pretty much lost. And you know, it most of that business I never got back because I let him. So, I was thinking about the wrong the wrong problem. It's like, oh, he solved margins, but I didn't really think about down the — I think you really honed in on something, Randy. like you went and it wasn't until you talked to somebody that you figured that out. And I think that's the problem solving is like people often think, well, it could be A, B, or C. They assume which one it is and they go with that before they validate it, right? Before they actually figure out like what's the actual data, you know, and people jump ahead, myself included sometimes. And so I think that's the the part of like asking why five times to find a root cause is it's time consuming but we forget that it can save more time by going through root cause analysis correctly than it does solving the problem the wrong way than having to solve it a second or a third time.

[11:31] — This is so hard for people though. people like instinctively they're worried about what they're saying, right? And they're thinking about what they're going to say next and how they're going to do it instead of really listening and even before listening like you'd said just asking the right questions to make sure they are solving the right problem, right? And going down the right path and that's boy that that's a skill that I think everybody should be working on. I mean myself included like it's just I'm better at it than I used to be but there's still a lot of room for improvement. You know, there's a lot of risk in your hand and saying this this is a this could be a problem. You know, I was in a meeting at one time at Sears and I got in a heap of trouble the we all reported to the CEO and chairman and the apparel person was talking about, you know, well, Easter came a little late and we had some weather issues and, you know, we had, you know, some product didn't get to the right stores and and so on and so forth because of the weather and this that and the other thing. And so we were reporting SE uh sales down year-over-year while Kohl's and Target and others were reporting sales up and I just stupidly blurted out does Kohl's have different weather than we do.

[12:53] you know, not really the right thing to say in the in a room full of — street executives, but you know that you know, she was talking about, you know, she was making excuses because she didn't want to be, you know, on the hot seat, you know, so — but why why wasn't that the right comment, Anthony? Like, like, is that a cultural wrong comment? — It was it was inappropriate. It might have been something that could have been framed differently. — So, delivery content tires on our trucks or something. I don't know. You know, it it was the right thing to say. He was just in the wrong room. — Like, is is was that really the problem? — The weather was not the problem, — right? No, but that was the question. The question could have been, hey, is weather really the problem here? — Yeah, it could have could have asked that could have asked it that way, but I was not alleg — would be another way to ask it, right? — Yeah, that would a different way to ask it. I like your way of asking it though better just for the record. It's it makes such a good story 25 years later, — I think that's a great point that I didn't consider before we prep for today's call is, you know, the way that the way that problem solving can feel for people matters, right? And so if you introduce sha if you introduce shame or guilt or embarrassment, it's going to be harder to get to the real reason for people than by making sure you work hard to ring shame, embarrassment, and guilt out of the situation. very difficult to problem solve when those are a part of the environment that you're solving in.

[14:22] — You know, sometimes, you know, you make you make a commitment to something and you you just keep pushing it. You know, you you think you're on the right track, you know, so in fairness, you know, she probably thought she had the right apparel in place. She you know, they thought they made good buying decisions. The the stores were remodeled beautifully and and all that. And so you keep you keep you know pouring the the same effort into the same thing that is not giving you the results. I'll give you a really good example that into it we bought uh in the mid 2000s pre I want to give it to you pre iPhone we bought a check company. So this company process checks. So they you you you you write a check, you could slide it through a reader and it would go to the check company and the money would go to your bank account. So we spent ungodly amount of money integrating it with QuickBooks. So now you put the check into the machine, it automatically uploads to your general ledger and then it goes off to your bank and so on and so forth.

[15:34] Okay. An hour after we got all that solved, okay, risk management, the systems, some guy named Steve Job introduces the iPhone and 20 minutes after that, every bank in America has got remote deposit, right? And so we we solved the problem, but the it was an elegant solution to a problem that suddenly went away. So, best intentions did a good job, but you know, life is some, you know, technology sometimes gets in the way. So, yeah, that's a is another example where, you know, just the way things go. — Well, this makes me think back. I I worked for an internet company during the com boom and bust. And when I started out, they had no idea how to market this. And the whole problem that they were trying to solve is how do we get more users? And they had tried everything under the sun, including regular marketing and magazine ads and radio ads. And they had just throwing money and throwing money and they were hemorrhaging money at this company. And they brought in 19 of us that started this new division to be onampus marketing. It was called collegeclub.com. Think of it was Facebook long before Facebook frankly.

[16:53] And the problem we were solving is how do we get more people signed up to the website? how do we get more users? And we went out and they set up a pay plan and 19 of us failed miserably. Not one person was getting good results. But pretty soon we figured something out and we started giving away freebies. We did all these things and eventually with 19 smart people we cracked it. And then they were like, "Oh, this." So, by the way, for the first six months, we didn't make diddly. We were so underpaid it was ridiculous. Then once we started cracking this, they're like, "Oh, we're paying these guys too much." And they changed our comp plan, right? And we got a different comp plan. Then they gave us a new comp plan. Then we cracked that. And now we had 40 people and 65 people cuz what we were doing, all of a sudden, we were the most we're we're growing. But they kept changing our comp plan. Then pretty soon they realized the incentives were all wrong because they were incentivizing us for signups. And back then, internet wasn't what it is now. We would set up laptops and people would sign up but not actually go to the website and we counted on them to go back to their apartment or their dorm room and log on to the site again which most of them didn't but we were just mass signing people up like just like crazy. And again they're like they're making too much money. We got to change this. So now they made the problem we need active users right because they they finally realized they were solving the wrong problem.

[18:23] Well, we figured that out. Then when we started getting a bunch more money and we had all this money coming in from Sony and General Motors and all these companies were investing, they started doing radio ads which they'd already proven didn't work, right? And they did all these, you know, rolling sewing for spin details. For those of you young people, they were a big deal 25 years ago or 26, seven years ago, but they just kept solving the wrong problem. And the whole thing was to get public. And this is really sad because this should be a multi- this should be a trillion dollar company today. Like they they were we were way ahead of Facebook and way more features than Facebook had in years. And they ran it in the ground. And then when the rush was to get nobody thought about getting the books right. Like they ended up not going public because the bookkeeping was screwed up. And then the bubble burst and these guys just never solved the right problem. But even rushing to get public, there was still a focus on users and nobody ever talked about making money. And it it's really a shame. Like with better problem solving and better first principles of what are we solving for, we would have survived and there'd be a lot of billionaires out of that c that company that ended up getting nothing. You know, Randy, it's interesting because that, you know, they might have been great at problem solving, but not at choosing the right problem to solve. So, I think there's kind of two issues there. Like, what is the right problem to solve? And then how do you solve that problem? Because they may have taken a problem A and solved problem A correctly exactly the way we said they should, but problem A was never the right problem to solve.

[20:06] — Yeah. Well, and the way they solved it, which was really good, was free market. They would give us a comp plan and by the end we had 65 or 70 people across the country. We had 65 or 70 people to go out and run their own little experiments and learn from each other and somebody would figure something out in San Francisco that would help somebody in Omaha that would help somebody in Austin that would help somebody in Dallas that would help somebody in Miami, right? And we were all communicating and everybody was getting better every month. It was really good at that. But yeah, you're great point, John. I mean, they were just never figured out what problem was trying to be solved. — Yeah. I I hear that a lot. You know, people in companies where I do a lot of consulting work, you know, something comes up and they try to solve the problem and the process that created the problem at the same time and they and they try to fix both those things with one solution. And that's almost always a recipe for disaster. So, it's like let's solve the problem first and then go back and figure out whether or not the process needs to get solved and then if it does, you can solve the process separately. But when you take when you take three problems and try to solve all of them with a single solution, you generally get a solution that's bad for all three.

[21:21] great examples and meth and methodologies to determine what the right problem is to solve, right? And sometimes you got to be able to pivot very quickly. I was just reading an article today about the most soughtafter companies to invest in by Silicon Valley are companies that got started by founders who have pivoted away from their original idea. So they may have decided they, you know, started a company and they're going to be this this particular niche of AI or something or whatever it might be or this particular product that we want to produce and sell, but they've shelved it and they've moved on to something else because it didn't work. So the investors saying, "This is great. We know exactly what he's not he or she's not going to do and they're willing to have pivoted into something else. Let's let's bet on this cowboy." really interesting dynamic that I didn't, you know, as I think about it, I think back to my days at Toyota where, you know, we had, you know, the Toyota production system, the problem solving system, Kaizen, and we had a million different tools and methodologies, but it always came down to plan, do, check, and act.

[22:43] And the planning was all about identifying a problem you wanted to solve. doing was trying one or 10 different things to have an impact on that problem. Checking was really looking at the data. Did were the actions that I took, did it move the needle? And then act was okay, we've got our answer. We're putting it in place and now this is the way we do things. So it's it's just it sounds simple but going all the way back to plan identifying that right problem you know you know how what what should be happening you know what what should be happening in this situation you know is it material that it isn't happening and then if it yeah the answer to that is yes can it be changed you know Anthony why were you so good at that at Toyota and then why is it that it's more inconsistent for you with more experience than it was back then or is it more consistent now? — You know, it's the way I I I think I'm still consistent with it. I mean, it was drilled into me. I was in I, you know, I went from Sears when we had Six Sigma.

[23:52] Then I went to Toyota where they had Toyota production system. I was it's like being in the military. They're teaching me to shoot, man. You know, this is how this is what you do. You know, six sigma was more of a processoriented thing. You know, how do we change a process? Toyota was, you know, looking at they they always were looking at the throughput. what's the what's the end what where are we right now with the end result how do we make that better so it was kind of a working backwards thing so it was just drilled into me and now it's it's more you know in the the smaller business that I had I had more control over things so it was more instinctual you know and you know in the beginning I remember John and you remember this we tried to teach our six employees you know 15 years of training that I I had and you had that didn't go over very well. So, we had to we we had to kind of just live it, you know, and really not try to train people, you know, it was it came down to the questions, you know, you'd ask people why, you know, why why and that that was really the the foundation of how we ran the last business we had. So, yeah. And sometimes, you know, your instinct is going to take over and you're just going to do something because it's instinctual. And, you know, I think at this point I'm right more than I'm wrong. But, you know, you still got to be you still got to do the checking part. You know, you guys have both done a great job at your companies of having environments where it's okay to make mistakes and bring up failures, even your own. like what are the things each of you have done in your companies to make it a culture where you do want to grow and you can make mistakes without that embarrassment, guilt or shame?

[25:36] — I think for me it's my mindset like I almost look for that type of stuff cuz I I view it as a growth opportunity, right? And look, I'm like everybody else. I don't like people telling me I'm wrong or this is stupid or whatever. And you know, there's an there's an ego play here. I think for me it's less of an issue than it is most people because I I value the growth and and I just I see it as an opportunity and I think that other people see that and I'm willing to say, "Oh, we screwed this up." And I'm willing to make changes and be nimble. I mean, John, you've pointed out sometimes I'm far too willing. I mean, the the downside for me, I'm too willing to change things and move too fast, but I do think that having that willingness makes it. It's contagious throughout the — Yeah, I I approach it a little bit differently. I mean, later, you know, early in my career, I would, you know, like like that poor lady in the in the CEO office, you know, I would be more abrupt, but I I I learned to separate and distinguish between errors of omission and errors of An error omission could be, you know, I'm going to try to pick up this door by myself because we got to get this truck loaded and I'm going to make I got to make it happen. No one's around and the window or the door falls and breaks. Yeah, it's a it's a mistake.

[27:01] Shouldn't have happened. The problem was you didn't have enough help. Okay. But you were trying. Commission is the truck driver taking that window and driving 90 miles an hour in a 60 mph zone on a curvy highway or a roadway and the window falling down in the truck and smashing. Okay, there's a big difference between those two mistakes, right? One is I committed the mistake. I I knew this was not the right way to do it. And the other was I was trying to help. So once you have those distinctions, then you treat the you treat the incident, if you will, much differently. You know, one guy's going to get a write up, the other guy's going to get a hug and say, "Hey, next time, dude, you know, use the use them the the the lift or use get someone to help you. Don't try to do that on your own. The other guy, you know, might not have a job at the end of the week." So I think you have to make a decision on, you know, how why was it committed? Wow.

[28:04] What? You know, what caused the mistake? — One guy's trying to make it better for the customer. One guy's trying to make better for themselves. — Yeah, exactly. That good good way to sum it up. — That's a That's a That's really well said, John. Early you said, "Why do smart people get this wrong?" And something has been on my mind because I've heard this on three or four different podcasts in the last two weeks talking about AI regulation. And I I probably heard 10 people talk about this. Probably seven or eight of them are billionaires. They're all highlevel really smart people and I think every single one of them is wrong and I think to me it's like the most obvious thing. Now maybe that's arrogance on my part but they're so the problem they're trying to solve for is how do we keep us safe in an AI world? How do we keep AI really is how do we keep it from creating chemical weapons or how do we keep it from hacking all of our systems and take them taking them down? And the answer that they all come to is some form of regulation. Now they have different versions of regulation. Most like Daario and the anthropic team are like yes government come regulate us.

[29:11] And that never ends well. It just it doesn't like I I heard David Saxs talking about this over the weekend and he was talking about like Dario asked for AI version of the FAA and I'd never heard this but it takes and my numbers might be a little off John you're great at factecking me as on the fly here but I believe he said to get a new airplane approved through the FAA it's 5 to9 or 6 to9 years to get a new airplane design and I started thinking about I'm like well crap the planes I fly on are the same planes that when I was a kid, like think about all the technology we've had. Well, no wonder nobody comes out with new airplane designs, right? They they've completely shut it down. And I believe then if you submit a design, it takes 6 to9 or 5 to n years to get it through. It then takes another 3 to 5 years if you want to edit or change something on the design. Well, they were trying to solve a problem to make airplanes safer. But I would question if you don't allow people to do new designs and use new stuff, are you really making them safer in the long run, right? Like like you're probably making it less safe. And we can't have that with AI. And I would also say that with AI, it's impossible because people don't think about second and third level and fourth level effects. If they did this, and even if it took six months to get something through, and I find it hard to believe the US government can make a move in six months, but even if they did, we will be so far behind. One, China will be kicking our butt, but the the best AI people, they'll leave. They won't stay here. Look at Europe. A Europe's best AI people have all left Europe. And we've benefited and China's benefited and other places. they will go somewhere that doesn't have that regulation where they can be on the cutting edge because six months is a lifetime in that industry and that's just I I could go on about this you know this hits home with me with sovereignty and everything else but but the problem they're solving is how to make it safe — yeah safer who this goes back to are you solving the right problem right because you know at the end of the day us slowing down AI in the western world whether it's the US or you know a group of countries doesn't mean that our geop political competitors are going to slow down on their side and then you're actually creating a disadvantage, right?

[31:33] And I think that to your point, right? That's just a different way of saying what you said. And so I think, you know, we go back to what is the problem that's trying to be solved. And so if safety is an issue, right, then then I think building building, you know, measures that show safety might be a better way than slowing down development, right? And you can I think you can get you know typically when you look at regulation over the history of time for technology regulation by the government is almost the last step in most cases and it's the groups that are doing the innovating that propose the right set of regulations and safety guard rails but I think it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle or the toothpaste back in the tube depending on which metaphor you like better. Well, in this case, I am almost 100% convinced that Daario, the anthropic CEO, who by the way, all these people running these frontier models, with the exception of Elon and the Google people, but they weren't CEOs, they don't really have any experience. They're coders that are doing this and they don't have that business experience. But I'm almost positive what he's trying to do is he thinks he gets the regulation, the government's going to regulate it. And you hear these, you know, just over the weekend, Kimmy 3.5 or whatever number came out that's supposed to be on par with Fable is a free open source from China. Okay. Well, — now Fable's available for everybody, by the way. You saw they they reacted to that by making Yeah, it's great.

[32:58] — Yeah, I've been using the crap out of it. But it is But they are like 1% of the price per token that Claude charges. Well, if I could charge a hundred times as much, I would love to the government to put a mode around so I could keep charging a 100x versus and block these open source to give me a competitive I I think he's trying to create that that moat through regulation. I think it's very shortsighted and it's not going to end well if it happens. But I also think the industry is moving so fast that ironically I think the Chinese open- source models are going to save us from ourselves. I heard somebody say I'm copying somebody else that said this and they said from capitalism that's not capitalism like like that's the opposite of capitalism to be clear is creating that regulatory moat. But I I think it's it's pissing in the wind trying to do it. I think you also have to be honest and ask yourself, is the Chinese government subsidizing that to get access to our data as part of an intelligence campaign? And I think that it would be I don't I don't know the answer to it, but a reasonable conclusion might be yes.

[34:08] — Yeah. Well, the the you know to get back to what problem are you trying to solve? It's not you're not trying to solve you know breaking into your bank account and or chemical weapons. The problem to solve is how do you prevent bad actors from being bad actors, right? That's that's the problem you have to solve. I mean, the internet today, look at what's going on with with inside of Facebook and Instagram. We've got we've got pedophile rings running on, you know, through the internet. The it's the bad actors are going to be bad actors. So you have to figure out who the bad actors are and stop them. How the hell are you going to do that? The federal government's going to do that. Are you kidding me? They they they it's just not going to happen. So if you have a product, you have to design it in such a way that that can't happen because if anthropic doesn't do the work and someone uses their product to break into everyone's bank account, the anthropic is not going to exist. So — but the government but if they if they lay that off to the government, they can reduce their risk and say that was the government's job, not mine. We just have to we have to get I just think there's a more honest conversation to be had about all of this.

[35:29] — That's what I'm saying. If no no no business is going to want to release a co release code produce a product that's Okay. If they release a product that's dangerous and the government had signed off on it, then they're right in the clear. You know, Boeing probably doesn't care that it takes five years to get a plane approved because, well, you approved it. You approved the design, you saw it, and the fact that it crashes, you know, one out of three times, you know, that's kind of on you. So, you know, maybe maybe that's, you know, I don't know where this leads us. I'm not sure there's any solution to this discussion, but nonetheless, the problem isn't the software. The problem is the bad actor in the first place. That's true with every technology throughout history, right? I mean, fire, you know, fire is this great thing, but they people have also used it as a weapon, right? And burn people alive and and we could talk about any technology that way. So, — let's go back to problem solving though. Let's get back to the problem solving thing, which is like if if I'm trying to solve problems, what's the first thing I need? Like I see a problem, what should I do first — for me?

[36:41] — You see a problem. So you've you you've you've you passed the point where this is the problem I need to solve. Let's make that assumption now. What's the next step? — Well, hold on. I think that I think I think you're skipping over. Usually I'm the one that's guilty of handwaving over stuff. For me, the thing that people skip over here is identifying the right problem. Like most people I think they take here's my past experience, here's my assumptions, we should this is what we should solve and it's based on what they've done in the past. But often times they're not solving the right problem. Just like when I was at college club, they were like, "Oh, instead of just signing people up, we need active users instead of trying to get figure out, oh, we actually have to be profitable to stay in business long term or we're going to run out of money." And it it that could be anything, but I think it's getting to the the core problem, which one you have to think about second, third, fourth. You got to slow down almost like your five W's, Anthony, and get to that. But I also think there's testing. Like a lot of times I think about things and I'm like, well god, it could be one of these three things. If we go back to your window example, right, and people aren't selling the window. Is it because our salespeople need to be better? Is it because our marketing has to target a different customer or is it something — Or the product is is the is it the wrong — right? I mean it it or it probably could be multiple other things. It's not I'm not saying this is easy by the way. I'm saying this is a skill set that a most people haven't worked on and b like I so to me the most important thing is figuring out are you solving the right problem that's actually going to get you the results you want. And maybe that's the first step to your question, John, is what are what's the outcome I'm looking for is probably before like a lot of times that'll clarify what problem should be solved as well.

[38:38] — You know, you got to get your hands dirty to discover what the problem what the real problem is. You know, in the in at Toyota, they have a term called GMBA, which effectively means get your ass out of the chair and go down on the factory floor and observe. Okay, go sit next to the guy installing the uh audio systems that's taking, you know, 20 minutes longer than we had projected, right? Go stand next to sit with your accountant, sit with your bookkeeper and watch how they're you they're doing their GEJS, you know, go go on the get get in the warehouse and figure out why that kid dropped the dropped the uh the window or the door. What what happened? get next to get get into the into the mix of the business and get out of your chair and stop talking about things and go go observe. Okay, observation is critically important. Whether you're observing a spreadsheet, you're observing what ads are being run, you're observing how you're you're backing into the warehouse with a tractor trailer, all those things. You got to get out and see things wherever wherever it is. Once you do that and you experience it, then you can start to determine is this is this really a problem. I use the INT example.

[40:01] In it had over a hundred people on staff that traveled all over the country and sat next to people while they used QuickBooks and Turboax and they watched them. They sat next to them day after day. They called it not ride alongs. They called it something something whole, you know. — Follow me home. There's a follow me — Follow me home. Follow me home. Thank you. And uh they would watch people, you know, what part of the screen did they look at first, you know, or what were they looking for? They were looking for a particular data item. So, they put it in a in the right place on the screen that made the most sense. I mean, it it it was it was you couldn't get closer to a customer. You couldn't get closer closer to the actual act of doing something. And and again again in Japan, this is how they this is how they work. They I mean the executives and their suit and ties are in the are in the factories. They're they're they're eating lunch with the workers. They're asking them questions. What was hard today? What what could we do that would make it easier? And and then and then most importantly, they empower people. They empower people to raise questions, to seek solutions, to test things. It it's a it's a it's an active developing organism is the way I like to describe it. It's really alive and it they can try something. If it doesn't work, doesn't work. Many many times though, you know, and again, solving a problem doesn't mean you have to change the world. Sometimes it's just a slight incremental adjustment to get the movement that you're looking for, right?

[41:43] So, uh, it doesn't have to be an earthshattering discovery. You don't have to discover quantum physics. Sometimes it's just, you know what, this ad's running better than that ad, so let's go let's go full boore with that ad. You know what I mean? — It's why this is why the CEO of of Four Seasons allowed every single employee to spend $2,000 to solve one of their guests problems and really change their culture. So, guys, let's wrap this up. Randy, help us put a bow on this. need to know this is a skill set. It's an area that all of us with maybe very very very few exceptions need to improve upon and it's not necessarily easy and it could be ego. I love what Anthony just said about, you know, sitting beside people and doing it. I literally am working on a software pro project. I did that this morning and the person that did it, I said, "Okay, where would you click first?" because I want this to be intuitive. And they're about the fifth person I've showed this to. Everybody else, it was intuitive where to click first. This person had a different idea. And my first impression was, well, it's obvious. Well, clearly it wasn't, right? So now I have to think about how do I redesign this so their eyes do go to the right place even if it I it can't be 80%. I needed to get closer to 100% of the people where, you know, it it goes to the right place. So I it it's that's ego. My first thing was well I I designed this better and this person's stupid. I didn't really think they're stupid but that's kind of what I thought. And then it's you know but so work on the skill that would be that that's my thing is we all just need to get better at it.

[43:23] — There's lots out there. There's lots of systems six sigma you know the kaizen there's a hund you know five wise like there's just a ton of things out there that help with this for sure. Anthony closing thoughts. I would say I'd just advise people to be sure before you before you start on solutions that you you are in fact solving a problem that needs to be solved. And I'll I'll leave the conversation with my favorite uh problem solving that I think to this day is still was and is a waste of time. And that's the electronic boarding pass. A extremely elegant solution to a problem that really doesn't exist. The fact that we we have this technology that allows you to put your boarding pass on a phone sounds great, but the amount of expense and security and cost that goes into that to maintain that system at each and every one of these airlines is tremendous. Where there was no problem printing that stupid thing on your home printer or when you got to the airport, it worked. It works exactly the same way. Tens and tens of millions of dollars are spent annually on that system. when a you know a $500 printer at the next to each agent works just as well. So in your business and in your life be sure you're solving a problem that really does need to be addressed that it's it is going to move the needle for you. it. That's where you should spend most of your time is determining is this really a problem and if I fix it, what's the upside gain going to get me versus the downside loss of time and money to to fix it. So, all right, there we have it. So, guys, we be right back with the abundance briefing. If you guys are still here, come back after the break. We've got some great things happening out in the world today. We'll be talking about right afterwards. In the meantime, while you're waiting for us during the break, like, subscribe, tell a couple friends.

[45:17] — Here at Tales of Abundance, we know that fitness is just as important as money or milestones. It's one of our fivefs, but lots of other taking care of my body while I build my life is one of the more timeconuming and difficult goals to chase. That's why we're partnering with AG1. It's a daily drinkable habit. less than a minute. That's formulated with 75 plus vitamins and nutrients and designed to support energy, digestion, and immune defense. It even has a few grams of protein uh that we're all chasing these days. If you want to try it with our affiliate link, you'll also receive a free AG1 flavor sampler plus vitamin D3 plus K2 with your welcome kit when you first subscribe. $72 value. Go to — Welcome back. Abundance briefing. First topic, I love this one. A 12year-old has started his own 3D printing business uh that runs 70 to 90% margins. Aaron, sorry if I'm going to butcher your last name, Aaron. Aaron Osirius of Atlanta, Georgia. He borrowed $600 from his parents at 12 years old. And he bought a 3D printer and launched it with his with his brother. And he noticed at school that his friends were all playing with like these fidget spinners and other things like that and and just various toys. So he started printing them and uh basically one day prints them. They sells them for $5 each. His margins run 70 to 80%. I just think this is cool. I think it's a cool world we live in.

[46:54] What do you guys think? Tell me tell me your thoughts on that. — He's got good parents, you know. I mean, really, the parents, you know, you everyone needs support, you know. You got to have you got to have support. Sometimes you you get it quickly. Sometimes it takes time and and many times you don't get it at all. And that crushes innovation in a lot of ways. So, good good on the good on the parents. They let him have the 600 bucks. Good on the parents that they're supporting him. They're giving him the time to do it. And good on him on the in terms of the effort, you know, that he'll have competition. We'll see how he uh how he reacts cuz he he's got no moat around him, that's for sure, in terms of the the product that he's selling. But it's great that that their technology lets people lets people do things. I was just reading an article about some of the, you know, some of the younger Gen Z guys and gals and even some Gen X. They're they're borrowing money from the SBA, their parents, sometimes banks, and they're buying up old school businesses like air conditioning companies and plumbing businesses and they're in a in a market and they're competing with, you know, the hedge funds who are doing this. So they'll go into a a town or a a a county and buy two or three of these businesses and put them together and leverage the technology into one and suddenly we have entrepreneurs spinning up all over the place. So it you know I think it's terrific and and hopefully that that stuff like that will continue.

[48:31] — Yeah. I just I just think it's it's a it's a abundant world when a kid can go buy a $500 3D printer, start a business, start, you know, throwing off some cash every week. I think that's I think that's pretty cool. I love the hustle. So, good job, Aaron. John, let's move on to one that's right in your wheelhouse — GLP1 drugs. They're you know, the question is, are they leading to a longer life? Everybody talks about them for the weight loss, right? But now there's research talking about is it increasing life expectancy? And I know the other question that you know I think both Anthony and I have I don't want to put words in your mouth Anthony but is it you know are you losing muscle and what are the consequences of that? So you are uh you know this is right in your wheelhouse. Talk to us. — Yeah I mean the reality is that when you uh are using a GLP1 if you're not doing resistance training then your body pulls energy both from muscle cells and from fat cells. But if you're doing resistance training and you're building more muscle, the muscles are going to hold on to their energy and they're going to you're going to have more fat reduction and you're going to have less muscle loss. But that resistance training, so lifting heavy weight is a really important part of the regimen when you're taking a GLP1 for sure.

[49:44] — so how do people how do people monitor that? You know, not everyone can go get body scans and and things like that. So, you know, I I I struggle with this because and I have some people in my life that have, you know, battled weight their whole lives, you know, the the the the result of losing weight feels really good, you know, and if you if it it's an it's an achievement after a long hard life of being overweight. So, are they really going to pay attention to the second part of this, which is the resistance training, or are they just going to be happy with the the weight loss and and losing muscle mass and skeletal mass and things like that? That's going to shorten your life. It's not going to lengthen your life. So, you might be skinny, but you're going to die — Yeah. I mean, you're you're talking with a level of certainty that I would say science hasn't actually proven out. May maybe that's true, Anthony, but if you're if you're really overweight and you lose weight, then I I mean, you're talking about a lot of variables where doctors would say we don't have longitudinal data and and losing the weight is going to have some benefit, but losing muscle is a problem. And the older you get, the harder it is to put muscle on. That's that's a known thing.

[51:02] And so, you know, step one is get people moving and doing the cardiovascular work to manage the metabolic challenges they have. Step two is adding resistance training to that GLP. And you know there are some patients that we work with inside of our practice where we've got to have them you know get you know msk clearance for their you know muscular skeletal doctors whether it's an orthopedic surgeon podiatrist whoever they may have to work with a physical trainer or even a physical therapist to kind of get into that system. But the reality is that if you're using muscles in a resistance training you're going to either retain or build muscle. And you know high level the way that things work is you store energy inside of fat cells and inside skeletal muscle. and and then when the liver needs energy back when you're not consuming food, it's going to draw from both of those stores. But if your muscles are using that energy, they're going to say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." Like, "Take it from the fat. We're keeping ours right." And the more muscle you have, the better that is. And so that happens by doing things very generally speaking that make you sore. — Yeah, I get what you're saying. And you're talking about patients that, you know, are, you know, maybe extremely overweight. I'm more worried about the recreational use of GLPS. I mean, that's that's what I'm more worried about. I mean, this has become, you know, [sighs] the next version of anorexia.

[52:23] You know, you know, people who don't really need to lose any weight or very little weight are turning to these things as a shortcut. And I'm just I'm just concerned that — Yeah. I got I got to call it. Yeah. So, I hear the intent of what you're saying. I got to be careful medically because anorexia is actually a mental health issue that has a very different set of under underlying causes. But what you're saying is that people are relying on the GLP1 as a crutch for something maybe and not actually doing the other side of it. And that's true too. And so I think for people that want to lose 5 lbs and want to use a GLP, awesome. I think that can be clinically indicated for some people. I would say that for people that we talk to in our practice, we talk really, you know, at length about where resistance training plays a role and not having resistance training plays a role has a consequence to it. And I think that's the thing that I think people need to be really well informed. I think that's the real key. And so anytime we sensationalize this, I think I'm not psyched about it. What I am psyched about is making sure everyone's got all the data, all the information, and they learn how to weave all of that into the lifestyle that's going to work for them in the long term. John, what's the what's the impact on bone loss? Is I know it I know it impacts muscle, but does it impact bone or No, I have no — Yeah. Not not directly. Not in the way they talk about muscle loss. And the reason you talk about muscle loss is because you're eating less calories, right, than you're consuming. And so what happened and you're slowing down your the the process of digestion. And so what happens is your body's drawing energy from those stores in in the state that you know that you're drawing energy from the muscles, not putting it into the muscles and into the fat. And so that and it just it the the liver is really doesn't care where it gets the energy from, right? It's it's just going to grab where it can grab. So you really want your muscles holding on to it and saying, "No, no, I'm not going to give that up." And that way it draws from the fat more than it draws from the muscle.

[54:13] — I have another question. So, you you've probably seen the picture of like Demi Moore recently on the red carpet and she kind of looks I don't know, not great. Like all the bone all the muscle's gone. Are those pictures real? I I guess here's what I'm thinking. I don't trust the media. Like I watched him a few years ago literally changed Joe Rogan the color of his face and and doctor the picture and they've done it over and over. But I just got done watching Land Man. It couldn't have been that long ago. She didn't look unhealthy. But now they're showing a picture of her. I mean, is is that a is that a real thing, do you think? Or is that just the media doctoring it trying to get clicks? — I mean, you would never think the media would do something just to get clicks and advertising dollars. That would never happen. Um, I don't know what's going on with Demi Moore. Not a patient in our practice. Can't speak to it intelligently. And I certainly know that the media does change pictures to get kind of their stuff going on. However, there is something that people have called OMIC face where people lose weight too quickly and it is unhealthy. And I think if if you know there's a lot of people that are getting less medical oversight than I would recommend to one of my friends or family and that's problematic and I think there's doctors that are really willing to write prescriptions for this stuff in ways that I I don't think are probably the very best way to do it. So, you know, I think I think there's an appropriate level of medical oversight and that would be important. So, — yeah, I here's the picture.

[55:36] — Yeah. Interesting. Interesting to me. So all right uh let's uh let's move on to our next topic. AI you know we've talked about this but has it moved from answering questions to doing work? I think more and more people are using it and having agents you know do things before this call we were talking about future episodes. John you asked you know I've got an AI agent on the Hermes bot that's called Odin. and you said, "Have Odin do it." And Odin gave us 12 potential topics that I think we all thought were pretty good. So instead of us, we'd spent 10 minutes beating around and hadn't figured out a topic and a couple minutes it gave us 12 that were pretty good. So that's one way we're using it. Uh how are you guys using it? Right. I know I'm using the crap out of it both. You know, I can come back to that, but how are you guys using AI? And John, I know you use it a lot and Anthony, you guys use it different. So John, go ahead first. Yeah, I'm using it everywhere inside of my organization where administrative and what would there you know companies often had kind of line the line work and the staff work and I think AI can be applied to both. We're applying it to staff work first. So things are highly repetitive that can be done on their own where the AI can actually work on its own and both on a project basis but also on a process basis that's being consistently redone.

[56:52] One example would be pulling a scorecard for all the data that we need to do for you know analytics both financial and activity analytics. would be one place we're using it. Another place would be understanding how we pull content together and then packaging things for customers to make it easier. So there's a lot of deliverables we're using it for internally. And I think you know AI to me at least is being used to get work done that wasn't being done or wasn't being done well enough in the past. My experience with technology is when technology comes out it allows you to do more work not the same work. And so I think some of the some of the concern about you know we'll have no work to do I think is missed. I think the concerns about people being displaced in the workforce, particularly those who aren't going to be learning new skills, those are those are real things that I think those fears are going to come to — yeah, I mean, I I'm I guess I'm my own agent in a lot of ways, but I'm doing things that I I've never done before. I'm I'm a I'm asking questions that I never would have had the time to ask and get to the bottom of it. you know, it is a an uber processor of information and data and it's just it's leading me down the getting the answers to questions that I've often had that I was never able to get the answers to and I get it quickly and I can get it from multiple sources to to check to make sure I'm getting the same answer. So, I'll use, you know, two or three different companies to to ask the same question.

[58:22] it it's just allowing me to be, you know, really really crisp in my decision- making. So, I mean, it it's amazing. I haven't, you know, I don't have bots running. I don't have I don't have the need for that just yet, but man, it it is it is making my life so much easier and I'm much much more — Yeah. I you know the other day I was sitting here and I'm I'm working on a software project that literally three or four weeks ago I could not have done that I've had cloud code running basically 247 for more than two weeks now working on this and I wouldn't have been able to do this previously. So I've got cloud code I give it directions telling it what to do. I open a different instance of quad and I'm having a discussion with it and a strategy session about how to take this to market something that would have taken hours and hours and we're working through and and you know talking about the pluses and minuses. I then while it's running something and creating a marketing strategy, I go back to I go back to cloud code. It's still running.

[59:32] I give it some updates, approve some things. I then open another version and I wanted to create a spreadsheet taking our marketing approach and what I used to do creating these really really detailed spreadsheets. Sometimes I would spend days putting these when I was thinking about a business opportunity. Like literally in between prompts on the other thing, I'm telling it what I want and it takes 10 versions for me to get it exactly the way I want. But all in I probably have five or 10 minutes of work into getting this really detailed spreadsheet. And oh by the way, I've got Odin on another screen that at this point is mostly auto running things that you know there's multiple tasks for this. I mean, Odin does more of the behind-the-scenes work right now than the three of us combined in a lot of ways that is running automated doing various tasks for the podcast. I'm not saying overall, but for the podcast. So, it's it's pretty amazing. It's like I have all of these employees that are just going and I have to just manage them, nudge them, direct them every now and and sometimes they go down the just like a human. Sometimes they go down the wrong path, but man, the the deeper I get in, the more ideas I get and the more capability and it just like every I don't know, every step I take opens up 10 new doors that I can go through, which is a little over well, a lot overwhelming, frankly.

[1:00:55] — All right, let's uh let's similar to that, the job market right now, this isn't the most abundance thing, but I think you know, we want to paint this in and what do you do about it? And we've been talking about this, but there's a real thing. Like again, having a kid getting out of college, the job market right now is tough. Like recent college graduates four or five years ago was one of the greatest job markets ever for college kids. And now, you know, new unemployment claims last week were unemployment claims. Um, but — compared to what, Randy, what's what's it normally? — I don't know. It's the lowest in 10, — Okay. So existing employees are keeping their old old jobs but it is you know the economy added only 57,000 jobs in June which let me be clear I do not trust the government numbers at all like those numbers will be adjusted almost guaranteed once and more likely two or three times. So whatever they say 57,000 that the that those numbers the main thing is the government estimates how many new businesses and how many new jobs are based every month despite being in a digital world where they could pull the data. They've got some outdated algorithm that's never right. But there it's hard for kids to get jobs right now. I'm just I'm watching that firsthand. So what's the solution? That's what I want to focus on is yes it's hard. Let's acknowledge it. But what do kids do?

[1:02:20] What do people do if they're trying to get in the job market now? — Well, wait a minute. Uh, you know, there there are there are job openings. I mean, what would is is was your first job the job you're doing now? — And I mean, it just isn't, you know, the your your your career, your your your or your timeline, whatever you want to call it, is going to is going to change over. So there there there are enough openings in certain sectors of the economy for every single person who wants to work to work. Okay, there are it may not be in the chosen field or you know your your final destination but if you want to earn a living, however meager you want to call it, you know you can do that. Do you know that um you know what percent of the population is earning minimum wage? Do you guys know the answer to that? — It's less than 1%.

[1:03:26] It's less than 1%. So yeah, you might you might have to have roommates and live in a maybe not the best, you know, living conditions or whatever the case might be, but you can get a job. — Anthony, I will say this. It's harder to find a job today than it was when I was looking for a job. just out of college. Like there's no doubt about that at all. Like I think most people would report that the jobs report says something similar. But I I would just say this. I've got two kids that are, you know, 21 and 23. Much more difficult to find work today than what I experienced coming out of college. — So you're telling me that they can't go and work at Bies or in a restaurant and get be get a server job that you they — hard to find? Very like the number of applicants per job much higher than it used to be. I had both of them apply for server jobs at multiple places and one of them got one for a short period of time and was quickly laid off when the uh demand at that place went down and people wanted more shifts, more hours. That's interesting because when I got graduated college back in the late '7s, the the unemployment rate was 14%. And today we the government says quote unquote we're at full employment at — Yeah. They've they've changed the the yard stick though. They're using a very different ruler. I think it's it's It's just hard. They keep changing the rules. Like back when in those days, once you were unemployed, you were unemployed. Now, if you're unemployed for like 3 months, they take you off the list and there's a whole bunch of things they've done to cook the books. So, they're they're literally using a different ruler than they used then. I I think the jobs that are available I think we've done a disservice to kids in this generation that they to Anony's point I do think a lot of them not all expect to start out as like the CEO or the president or a manager and not work their way up from the bottom. I think that's one of the things but we've also done a huge disservice in the trades. I mean I I read a thing just a week or two ago and I forget the exact time frame but it was something like in the next 5 to 10 years 65 of the electricians are going to retire and we are not adding electricians. There's already a huge shortage of electricians.

[1:05:33] You hear these stories all the time about data centers that'll pay 250,000 for an electrician or if they're willing to go to West Texas. I've heard numbers as high as half a million and even three4ers of a million dollars to be an electrician, but most kids just don't want to do that. It's not sexy enough or it's not the dream they've been sold. So, I think there's some legitimacy in what Anthony said. And I think some of that is we've done this disservice telling everybody you've got to go to college. Even if some of them get what are in my opinion BS degrees, right? They get these degrees that don't give them a skill set for the real world. And if people want to get degrees in that, they should be allowed to do so. They should just have different expectations of what kind of job offers are going to come their way if they go get those what I would consider US degrees. — Well, I again I'm going to lean into our last topic. I think — AI or go the other way. be I mean either learn AI and you'll make yourself indispensable and in the future even if it's not clear now 3 months 6 months whatever you'll see opportunity I just I believe that or go the other way and do the things that's going to be hardest for it to disrupt whether it's people skills we talked about problem solving earlier on this episode electrician plumber like those are going to be safer longer than than other stuff but new opportunities coming I think people just have to look for it and look for the job that what's the job that's good now or 6 months from now or 6 years from now not the one that was you know there 6 years ago cuz that that is going to change.

[1:07:11] — All right guys let's wrap it up tell them what to do. — All right. Download subscribe tell your friends but just keep coming back and go out and spread a little abundance in the world until next week. Talk to you later.